The Lupul Situation
- Thread starter Kin
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bustaheims
Active member
sickbeast said:As usual, some of you guys are being argumentative, full of bombast, for no reason. There is no actual substance to your comments. Have a look here:Nik the Trik said:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/leafs%e2%80%99-salary-cap-could-hinge-on-exam-of-joffrey-lupul/ar-AAssbr3?li=AAggNb9&ocid=spartanntp
Most people work based on facts and knowledge. You are spewing misinformation and you're adding nothing at all to the discussion. Why am I not surprised? :
Yeah. Nik's talking about this situation where Lou's team was absolutely, 100% punished for circumvention for a contract signed under his supervision:
https://www.nhl.com/news/devils-penalty-for-kovalchuk-contract-modified/c-708210
The NHL has most definitely accused and punished Lou for cheating. But, nice try.
Kin
New member
sickbeast said:As usual, some of you guys are being argumentative, full of bombast, for no reason. There is no actual substance to your comments. Have a look here:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/leafs%e2%80%99-salary-cap-could-hinge-on-exam-of-joffrey-lupul/ar-AAssbr3?li=AAggNb9&ocid=spartanntp
Most people work based on facts and knowledge. You are spewing misinformation and you're adding nothing at all to the discussion. Why am I not surprised? :
I'm not entirely sure what your quote there is supposed to mean. We know people close to the situation are saying Lupul can't play. The Leafs and their doctor, who are pretty close to the situation, said he's unfit to play. What the issue has always been is the veracity of that statement.
But even still, nothing of what Frank, busta and I said was about whether or not Lupul is legitimately as injured as the Leafs have said. Me and Frank were talking about the idea that suggesting Lamoriello broke the rules is somehow absurd when he is probably the most high-profile rule breaking GM in recent NHL history. Then Busta talked about other problems with what Cherry said, again all factual.
None of that changes the fact that Lupul is definitely injured and should have kept his mouth shut.Nik the Trik said:sickbeast said:As usual, some of you guys are being argumentative, full of bombast, for no reason. There is no actual substance to your comments. Have a look here:
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/leafs%e2%80%99-salary-cap-could-hinge-on-exam-of-joffrey-lupul/ar-AAssbr3?li=AAggNb9&ocid=spartanntp
Most people work based on facts and knowledge. You are spewing misinformation and you're adding nothing at all to the discussion. Why am I not surprised? :
I'm not entirely sure what your quote there is supposed to mean. We know people close to the situation are saying Lupul can't play. The Leafs and their doctor, who are pretty close to the situation, said he's unfit to play. What the issue has always been is the veracity of that statement.
But even still, nothing of what Frank, busta and I said was about whether or not Lupul is legitimately as injured as the Leafs have said. Me and Frank were talking about the idea that suggesting Lamoriello broke the rules is somehow absurd when he is probably the most high-profile rule breaking GM in recent NHL history. Then Busta talked about other problems with what Cherry said, again all factual.
Look, you're just some guy on a web forum. You're saying guys like Don Cherry are wrong, and you're questioning both Lou Lamoriello and the team doctor's integrity. If Lupul should have said what he said, then why did he retract it? Why did he decline his opportunity for a second opinion?Nik the Trik said:
I find that you just like to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. There is no factual basis for your comments. You are in your own reality.
bustaheims
Active member
Oh, good, an appeal to authority.
Kin
New member
sickbeast said:
No doubt.
sickbeast said:
Indeed. Of course, I say Don Cherry is wrong about things most weeks. Remember that one time he went on and on about why Joe Pavelski wasn't on Team Canada?
sickbeast said:
Yes. I am questioning Lamoriello's integrity on the basis of the fact that he's cheated before and so I don't look at him cheating as being outside the realm of possibility. That seems pretty fair to me.
sickbeast said:
This seems fairly paradoxical. "Joffrey Lupul did something really stupid...how can you think Joffrey Lupul's judgement might be off?".
I'm surprised it's taking this long for the Lupul situation to get resolved. The roster has to be finalized by Tuesday. I wonder if we will find out the league's determination tomorrow. Imagine the Leafs lose the Stanley Cup final in seven games this year. You just know that extra $4 million in cap space would have made the difference they needed. It will be really frustrating if this whole thing holds back the team in any meaningful way this season.
Zee
Active member
I'd like to see the Leafs go to the Stanley Cup final this year. I hardly think if you go to one game, winner take all you can point back to the Lupul situation and say "oh they would have won game 7 if only that money could have been used on player X!" I mean anything can happen in one gamesickbeast said:
Kin
New member
Also, there are ways the Leafs could shave 4 million dollars off the payroll and arguably improve as a team.
1. Trade Bozak, move Nylander, insert Kapanen.
2. Trade Komarov, Demote Martin, insert Leivo/Kapanen
At worst, Lupul's status would mean that Babcock wouldn't get to be quite as stubborn as he'd otherwise like. Either way, like Zee said, there's no real way of gauging the consequence.
1. Trade Bozak, move Nylander, insert Kapanen.
2. Trade Komarov, Demote Martin, insert Leivo/Kapanen
At worst, Lupul's status would mean that Babcock wouldn't get to be quite as stubborn as he'd otherwise like. Either way, like Zee said, there's no real way of gauging the consequence.
$4 million is not chump change. There will be a consequence. That much money should be good for at least a 20 goal scorer on the open market. How many more wins is that? 5? 6? It's definitely enough that it's going to make a meaningful difference. The fact that it's taking this long concerns me. If it was clear cut they would have said something by now.
Kin
New member
sickbeast said:
That doesn't really add up. For starters the Leafs are pretty set in terms of goal scoring wingers. In fact, they already have too many.
But also, let's say you sign a 20 goal scorer. Putting him into the lineup pushes someone else out. The lowest scoring top 9 winger the Leafs had last year was Hyman but even he scored 10 goals. So a 20 goal scorer probably just represents a net gain of 10 or so goals. How much do those 10 goals matter? Not much. Remember, not all of those goals can be assumed to be game winners. Some will be scored in games the Leafs win anyway, some will be scored in games the Leafs lose anyway.
If you use pythagorean win-loss expectations, a net gain of 10 goals works out to about 4 points over the course of a season. So two wins. Or not a big deal.
Even then though, like I said, the Leafs have opportunities to improve the team while freeing cap space.
Kin
New member
sickbeast said:
That's when I go back to the options the Leafs have to cut costs while promoting from within. Komarov, Bozak...the Leafs have expiring deals they can move without hurting the team much.
But also, like I said at the beginning, if the NHL says the Leafs are wrong and Lupul is fit to play then it's just a bad contract the Leafs have to deal with. Most teams have to deal with bad contracts. Maybe you bribe Vegas with a pick or prospect to take him off your hands.
The Leafs have options. Lupul's deal won't handcuff them and, if it does, then they probably shouldn't have been wrong about his health.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
Zee said:
The NHL wrapped the Hossa inquiry fairly quickly.
Daly was asked last week about the Lupul situation and responded with no comment.
Perhaps Lupul is dragging his feet and doesn't want to rock the boat?