The Official Complaint Thread!

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm told that bridge could be closed for some time, like longer than a week.

Traffic is an absolute mess this morning.

I'm against capital punishment and all, but I'd maybe make an exception here.

 

[Frank E]

I'm told that bridge could be closed for some time, like longer than a week.

Traffic is an absolute mess this morning.

I'm against capital punishment and all, but I'd maybe make an exception here.

I hear you...and they were diverting people to the Red Hill/Linc, so that thing was jammed up huge this morning as well.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

and he's been charged with impaired and blowing over 80 too..... guy should be held financially responsible for all the damage he caused. And that's just the direct damage (bridge repairs etc) never mind the cost of business he's screwed over in ancillary damage. Colossal asshat, if I may say so.

 

[Bender]

I've been cycling into work quite a bit lately and as much as I find motorists annoying, I am actually outraged and the majority of cyclicsts.

I keep hearing that cars are reckless and dangerous etc. This is true, but it's unbelievable how many cyclists go through red lights! I almost never see cars do that.

 

[bustaheims]

I've been cycling into work quite a bit lately and as much as I find motorists annoying, I am actually outraged and the majority of cyclicsts.

I keep hearing that cars are reckless and dangerous etc. This is true, but it's unbelievable how many cyclists go through red lights! I almost never see cars do that.

I've seen some unbelievable things from cyclists. Too many feel like they can arbitrarily go from being a vehicle to a pedestrian. Also, it seems like they don't believe stop signs apply to them. In my area, I see maybe 1 in 10 cyclists actually stop at them - and, I'm not really exaggerating, either. It's a rarity that I see a cyclist stopped at a stop sign. Not obeying traffic laws is putting yourself at a ridiculous risk. In a fight between a car and bike, the bike is always going to lose, regardless of who is at fault. You can't control what others do, but you can minimize your risk by obeying the law. It's really that simple.

 

[Bender]

I've been cycling into work quite a bit lately and as much as I find motorists annoying, I am actually outraged and the majority of cyclicsts.

I keep hearing that cars are reckless and dangerous etc. This is true, but it's unbelievable how many cyclists go through red lights! I almost never see cars do that.

I've seen some unbelievable things from cyclists. Too many feel like they can arbitrarily go from being a vehicle to a pedestrian. Also, it seems like they don't believe stop signs apply to them. In my area, I see maybe 1 in 10 cyclists actually stop at them - and, I'm not really exaggerating, either. It's a rarity that I see a cyclist stopped at a stop sign. Not obeying traffic laws (never mind the understood rules of the road) is putting yourself at a ridiculous risk. In a fight between a car and bike, the bike is always going to lose, regardless of who is at fault. You can't control what others do, but you can minimize your risk by obeying the law. It's really that simple.

I agree with you here. It's funny though, I bring this up to people and if they view themselves as part of some kind of cyclicst collective, they'll blame shift to motorists, which I think is ridiculous. A good driver would never condone the reckless driving of all the poor motorists out there.

I know I pull a few moves that are questionable - I hug the middle lane in the downtown core when cars aren't moving and try to beat out the first car off a green and move over as quickly as possible (almost exclusively due to morning gridlock). But I think that a move like that is at least understandable - there's no reason to be stuck behind a jillion cars if you can get over safely. But how do you defend not stopping at reds? Or like you said, deciding that they're pedestrians at will?

And worst of all is many cyclists complain about a lack of respect for cyclists. I agree, it's probably there, but they're building a damn good case against themselves for the lack of respect to be legitimate.

I think cyclists should set the standard of care before demanding more respect from bigger, motorized vehicles.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I dunno guys, Clickhole disagrees: http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/cities-need-traffic-laws-recognizing-cyclists-most-811

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

And worst of all is many cyclists complain about a lack of respect for cyclists. I agree, it's probably there, but they're building a damn good case against themselves for the lack of respect to be legitimate.

That's a case of placing the faults of inconsiderate cyclists on all cyclists no?  Do the same cyclists that complain about lack of respect for cyclists do the things you say in the original post?  I know quite a few 'serious' cyclists who would never dream of doing that.  I also know some more casual cyclists who probably don't follow the rules of the road as a whole.

I don't personally cycle, but just walking to and from work I've almost been hit half a dozen times by cars turning corners when I have the right of way as a pedestrian.  I wouldn't then say that vehicle drivers are building a case against themselves - just that there are terrible drivers and terrible cyclists.  There just happen to be a ton more vehicles on the road.

 

[Bender]

And worst of all is many cyclists complain about a lack of respect for cyclists. I agree, it's probably there, but they're building a damn good case against themselves for the lack of respect to be legitimate.

That's a case of placing the faults of inconsiderate cyclists on all cyclists no?  Do the same cyclists that complain about lack of respect for cyclists do the things you say in the original post?  I know quite a few 'serious' cyclists who would never dream of doing that.  I also know some more casual cyclists who probably don't follow the rules of the road as a whole.

I don't personally cycle, but just walking to and from work I've almost been hit half a dozen times by cars turning corners when I have the right of way as a pedestrian.  I wouldn't then say that vehicle drivers are building a case against themselves - just that there are terrible drivers and terrible cyclists.  There just happen to be a ton more vehicles on the road.

Well here's the thing, I disagree with a lot of how motorists think about cyclists, but I can understand because I dislike bad cyclists too. It' s just easier to see because running through reds and ignoring stop signs and becoming a pedestrian at will are so, so, so commonplace. In a weird way, I actually sympathize with motorists - so far, being at road level as much as I am, I can honestly say I've felt that cyclists have been more reckless than cars.

You wouldn't see a car just hop on the sidewalk randomly or run reds on a regular basis. Bicycles are considered vehicles by the MTO so why is it that seeing these things happen are so frequent?

I'm not talking about being careless and making a bad left. Cyclists and motorists both do that all the time. It's where what they're doing presently that is considered 100% illegal that really grinds me. Again, I'm not saying that motorists aren't dangerous (just drive on the 401), but I've never seen a car blow through 80% of the reds on my commute, but I have seen that from seperate cyclists on my commute almost every day since I've started riding. At Castle Frank Stn it's closer to 100%.

*Edit

I'd also like to take the time to say that I've biked more hours in my life than I have driven, just in case people think that I have some kind of anti-cyclist bias.

 

[Bender]

I dunno guys, Clickhole disagrees: http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/cities-need-traffic-laws-recognizing-cyclists-most-811

Well obviously as a cyclist I would love to endorse this

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

You wouldn't see a car just hop on the sidewalk randomly or run reds on a regular basis. Bicycles are considered vehicles by the MTO so why is it that seeing these things happen are so frequent?

Poor enforcement of laws?

You wouldn't see a car hop on the sidewalk, but you also wouldn't see a bicycle speed 30 km/h over the speed limit.  They're both considered vehicles but there's clearly major differences (insurance? license?) involved with each when it comes to responsibility and risk.

EDIT: Also, I would guess that a good portion of sidewalk cyclists do so in instances to avoid what they perceive to be dangerous conditions on the roadway.  Obviously that's not ideal either (and obviously dangerous), but I could see situations where that could occur as an out.  I'm not sure there will ever be a perfect situation unfortunately unless policing it is stepped up.

How many motorists do you still see on cell phones while driving?  I see it alllllllll the time, I've even called people in to the police about it. 

I don't think it's an either/or thing - lots of motorists and lots of cyclists flaunt the law when they think they can get away with it.

 

[Bender]

You wouldn't see a car just hop on the sidewalk randomly or run reds on a regular basis. Bicycles are considered vehicles by the MTO so why is it that seeing these things happen are so frequent?

Poor enforcement of laws?

You wouldn't see a car hop on the sidewalk, but you also wouldn't see a bicycle speed 30 km/h over the speed limit.  They're both considered vehicles but there's clearly major differences (insurance? license?) involved with each when it comes to responsibility and risk.

Yeah but there's issues with that analogy. Yeah, weaving is terrible at high speed, but if everyone is going 130km/h on the highway then you keep with the flow of traffic. It's fundamentally different than ignoring a stop sign or red light.

Of course there's different levels of risk involved: if you blow a red you could get yourself killed and/or seriously injure yourself and a pedestrian. This happens more times every day than I've ever seen cars blow through reds and stops.

I was actually going to bring up licensing in a related post: I believe cyclists should be licensed and enforcement should be far stricter. This is coming from a person who identifies as a cyclist.

Obviously there are bad cases everywhere, and I'm not ignorant to the fact that bicycles and motorized vehicles are two different things that come with their own set of circumstances but I don't see how complaining about cyclists necessarily means I don't think motorists are bad. But I do get a sense of not caring about general rules/resentment towards sharing the road amongst many, many cyclists. It's a feeling I didn't get as much from motorists when I did drive more often.

 

[Bender]

You wouldn't see a car just hop on the sidewalk randomly or run reds on a regular basis. Bicycles are considered vehicles by the MTO so why is it that seeing these things happen are so frequent?

Poor enforcement of laws?

You wouldn't see a car hop on the sidewalk, but you also wouldn't see a bicycle speed 30 km/h over the speed limit.  They're both considered vehicles but there's clearly major differences (insurance? license?) involved with each when it comes to responsibility and risk.

EDIT: Also, I would guess that a good portion of sidewalk cyclists do so in instances to avoid what they perceive to be dangerous conditions on the roadway.  Obviously that's not ideal either (and obviously dangerous), but I could see situations where that could occur as an out.  I'm not sure there will ever be a perfect situation unfortunately unless policing it is stepped up.

How many motorists do you still see on cell phones while driving?  I see it alllllllll the time, I've even called people in to the police about it. 

I don't think it's an either/or thing - lots of motorists and lots of cyclists flaunt the law when they think they can get away with it.

In a perfect world that would be the case. I go on the sidewalk if I'm on a one way and need to get back to the main road, but I ride slowly.

Usually I see cyclists not interested in engaging the road correctly. Half the time it's because someone has their hazard lights on and they feel like not merging with traffic for a split second so they'd rather endanger pedestrians. In almost no circumstance do I think its ok to ride your bike on the sidewalk. If that's the case, get off and walk it. At least you'll be a pedestrian and not a vehicle.

I wish I had a gopro.

 

[bustaheims]

Potvin's cell phone comment actually reminded me of a fairly ridiculous example of cyclist negligence I saw fairly recently. The guy blew through a clear red (there were already a few cars stopped at the light on the side of the intersection he was approaching from), not wearing a helmet and earphones in both ears at a relatively busy time of day (though, fortunately for him, not a particularly busy intersection). That's just asking for trouble.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Yeah but there's issues with that analogy. Yeah, weaving is terrible at high speed, but if everyone is going 130km/h on the highway then you keep with the flow of traffic. It's fundamentally different than ignoring a stop sign or red light.

Of course there's different levels of risk involved: if you blow a red you could get yourself killed and/or seriously injure yourself and a pedestrian. This happens more times every day than I've ever seen cars blow through reds and stops.

I was actually going to bring up licensing in a related post: I believe cyclists should be licensed and enforcement should be far stricter. This is coming from a person who identifies as a cyclist.

Obviously there are bad cases everywhere, and I'm not ignorant to the fact that bicycles and motorized vehicles are two different things that come with their own set of circumstances but I don't see how complaining about cyclists necessarily means I don't think motorists are bad. But I do get a sense of not caring about general rules/resentment towards sharing the road amongst many, many cyclists. It's a feeling I didn't get as much from motorists when I did drive more often.

I wasn't saying that you don't think motorists are bad.  I got the sense you were laying all the blame on one side of the ledger and you brought up that cyclists are creating a bad name for themselves so I wondered if you thought the same thing for a mode of transportation like a vehicle.  Often I read a similar comment like yours when you don't see the same thing said when a motorist breaks the law - I rarely, if ever, hear someone say a drunk driver is setting a bad example for all drivers (off the top of my head).

Insert a different law-breaking analogy then, I'm clearly not talking about instances where it is the flow of traffic on a highway.

There needs to be better information/education regarding cycling for both cyclists and drivers.  Don't know what else can be done other than gradually getting more bike lanes to make it safer, better enforcement, and a gradual education campaign.  If people don't get it, they don't get it.  Will always be idiots out there.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Potvin's cell phone comment actually reminded me of a fairly ridiculous example of cyclist negligence I saw fairly recently. The guy blew through a clear red (there were already a few cars stopped at the light on the side of the intersection he was approaching from), not wearing a helmet and earphones in both ears at a relatively busy time of day (though, fortunately for him, not a particularly busy intersection). That's just asking for trouble.

People like that you think it will take them getting killed to figure it out.

 

[Bender]

Yeah but there's issues with that analogy. Yeah, weaving is terrible at high speed, but if everyone is going 130km/h on the highway then you keep with the flow of traffic. It's fundamentally different than ignoring a stop sign or red light.

Of course there's different levels of risk involved: if you blow a red you could get yourself killed and/or seriously injure yourself and a pedestrian. This happens more times every day than I've ever seen cars blow through reds and stops.

I was actually going to bring up licensing in a related post: I believe cyclists should be licensed and enforcement should be far stricter. This is coming from a person who identifies as a cyclist.

Obviously there are bad cases everywhere, and I'm not ignorant to the fact that bicycles and motorized vehicles are two different things that come with their own set of circumstances but I don't see how complaining about cyclists necessarily means I don't think motorists are bad. But I do get a sense of not caring about general rules/resentment towards sharing the road amongst many, many cyclists. It's a feeling I didn't get as much from motorists when I did drive more often.

I wasn't saying that you don't think motorists are bad.  I got the sense you were laying all the blame on one side of the ledger and you brought up that cyclists are creating a bad name for themselves so I wondered if you thought the same thing for a mode of transportation like a vehicle.  Often I read a similar comment like yours when you don't see the same thing said when a motorist breaks the law - I rarely, if ever, hear someone say a drunk driver is setting a bad example for all drivers (off the top of my head).

Insert a different law-breaking analogy then, I'm clearly not talking about instances where it is the flow of traffic on a highway.

There needs to be better information/education regarding cycling for both cyclists and drivers.  Don't know what else can be done other than gradually getting more bike lanes to make it safer, better enforcement, and a gradual education campaign.  If people don't get it, they don't get it.  Will always be idiots out there.

What I'm saying is I sympathize more for motorists either being scared out of their minds in regards to hitting a cyclist that doesn't care/weaves around traffic all the time or runs reds. If cyclists were better at following the rules of the road I'd have more sympathy for cyclists who do say motorists are reckless. If more cyclists decided "Hey, maybe we shouldn't say cars are worse and more reckless so we're good, maybe we should actually show we're better and more responsible than they are." I think you would earn more respect.

I think cycling is also more visible and more exposed, so thats why you see more people talking about it. When someone texts and drives you may not see them. But I agree it shouldn't be tolerated. I can't account for what I don't see, though, and maybe I am wrong about how many people text and drive, but it's just the sheer high percentage of cyclists that blow reds and hop on the sidewalk that gets me. Like I said, outside of Castle Frank it's almost 100% ignoring the light. I think you can see why it's irritating if almost every cyclist doesn't adhere to the rule in a plain intersection I bike past everyday.

While on a bicycle, I find more issues with cyclists in regards to honoring the rules of the road than motorists, and that will remain until I see the percentage drop. If I can get through even half my commute to work (4km) where a cyclist doesn't go through a red or go on the sidewalk then I'll change my stance.

 

[AvroArrow]

Almost all people on the road are idiots.  Doesn't matter if they are motorists, bicyclists, or pedestrians.  They're virtually all morons and they all piss me off.

 

[TML fan]

Almost all people on the road are idiots.  Doesn't matter if they are motorists, bicyclists, or pedestrians.  They're virtually all morons and they all piss me off.

Truth.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Almost all people on the road are idiots.  Doesn't matter if they are motorists, bicyclists, or pedestrians.  They're virtually all morons and they all piss me off.

As a member of all three groups, I couldn't agree more.  I see stupidity from all three all the time.  As my wife says, I suffer from a severe case of driving/cycling/pedestrian egotism but when I point out other people's stupidity she knows I'm right!  That said, I don't always follow every rule of the law all the time either. 

As a pedestrian I jaywalk, enter a crosswalk when the hand is flashing, etc BUT, I only do it when its safe to do so.

As a cyclist, I believe the Idaho Stop is the correct way for a cyclist to deal with a stop sign and do so even though its not legal here:  http://vimeo.com/4140910

As a driver, I don't think I ever do the speed limit unless traffic is keeping me from it.  I have a bit of a lead-foot.  Oh well.  But, boy do I HATE left lane hogs- definitely my biggest pet-peeve of other motorists. 

The BIGGEST pet peeve I have about other cyclists (as both a cyclist and a motorist) is squeezing up the curb at a red light where there is no bike lane.  The main reason this is a problem is just the plain lack of bicycle lanes... there should be a whole lot more but that is a different argument.  When the light turns green, you have cyclists and vehicles attempting to start side-by-side in a single lane (which is illegal... even for two motorcycles or bikes).  Single-file is MUCH safer.  In fact, if I'm the first one to a red light I will stop my bike IN THE MIDDLE of the lane;  after I get started and can guarantee I will ride in a straight line I will move closer to the curb to allow vehicles to pass in the same lane.  Motorists often honk or whatever, but its my legal right to do so (and its much safer).  Furthermore, passing a car on the right when its clearly signaled to turn right and is ahead of you... ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID PEOPLE?  See the bottom of this page for the correct way to deal with that situation:  http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/cycling-guide/section3.0.shtml

Red light running is just plain stupid- on a bicycle or in a vehicle.