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The Official Complaint Thread!

You guys have done so well with Green energy and your electricity costs I don't see why you wouldn't go all in on electric cars???  sarcasmoff

We are generations away from even contemplating a gas free world. 
 
I worked on a project here in Belfast putting in a load of electric car charge points across Northern Ireland. We put about 100 in around the country.

In the first year about half of them had never been used. The one that had seen the most use was outside the Department of Environment building (cos they owned and used an electric vehicle). And the biggest source of income from the charge points was in parking fines for people parking their gasoline cars in the electric charging bays.

But you have to have the infrastructure in place to encourage people to buy the things rather than realise "oh 3 million people have electric cars. We should probably start installing charge points".
 
herman said:
cabber24 said:
herman said:
No one is forcing you to get an EV, or to use a charging station even if you do get one.
I am being forced to pay for these charging stations!

So you're paying for a better environment for your descendants?
I like the cars but the charging stations are a farce. I would even consider getting one as long as I have a gas car option in the garage for longer trips. People can charge at home. If Ontario wants to invest in this give people more grants who buy them and more grant money to install charging stations at their home.
 
cabber24 said:
I like the cars but the charging stations are a farce. I would even consider getting one as long as I have a gas car option in the garage for longer trips. People can charge at home. If Ontario wants to invest in this give people more grants who buy them and more grant money to install charging stations at their home.

They're doing that also.
 
cabber24 said:
herman said:
cabber24 said:
herman said:
No one is forcing you to get an EV, or to use a charging station even if you do get one.
I am being forced to pay for these charging stations!

So you're paying for a better environment for your descendants?
I like the cars but the charging stations are a farce. I would even consider getting one as long as I have a gas car option in the garage for longer trips. People can charge at home. If Ontario wants to invest in this give people more grants who buy them and more grant money to install charging stations at their home.

Are gas stations also a farce? They're kind of the reason cars are so convenient.

Like Arn said, infrastructure is needed before the demand reaches critical mass. Otherwise you get stuff like the Toronto subway system. I'd be happy to chip in the $1.47 on your behalf if it's still an issue for you.
 
cabber24 said:
I say forget these charging stations and let people who want one stay close to home because building a fraction of the required infrastructure to support a 40 minute charge does not make sense.

These things don't require a ton of infrastructure. They can basically be installed in any existing parking lot. For example, a couple spots in a grocery store parking lot could host charging stations, so people can plug in their cars while the shop. They don't have to build a bunch of new lots, buildings, or anything like that to install these things. They can be integrated into the existing infrastructure.
 
Nik the Trik said:
cabber24 said:
I like the cars but the charging stations are a farce. I would even consider getting one as long as I have a gas car option in the garage for longer trips. People can charge at home. If Ontario wants to invest in this give people more grants who buy them and more grant money to install charging stations at their home.
They're doing that also.
I said give them more...
 
herman said:
cabber24 said:
herman said:
No one is forcing you to get an EV, or to use a charging station even if you do get one.
I am being forced to pay for these charging stations!

So you're paying for a better environment for your descendants?

You're into a pretty hefty debate in terms of if this is the best way to spend tax dollars toward that goal.
 
herman said:
cabber24 said:
herman said:
cabber24 said:
herman said:
No one is forcing you to get an EV, or to use a charging station even if you do get one.
I am being forced to pay for these charging stations!

So you're paying for a better environment for your descendants?
I like the cars but the charging stations are a farce. I would even consider getting one as long as I have a gas car option in the garage for longer trips. People can charge at home. If Ontario wants to invest in this give people more grants who buy them and more grant money to install charging stations at their home.

Are gas stations also a farce? They're kind of the reason cars are so convenient.

Like Arn said, infrastructure is needed before the demand reaches critical mass. Otherwise you get stuff like the Toronto subway system. I'd be happy to chip in the $1.47 on your behalf if it's still an issue for you.
Go on a road trip with one of these cars and tell me how it works out. Convince me that waiting a minimum of 40 minutes to charge while traveling makes sense.
 
Arn said:
I worked on a project here in Belfast putting in a load of electric car charge points across Northern Ireland. We put about 100 in around the country.

In the first year about half of them had never been used. The one that had seen the most use was outside the Department of Environment building (cos they owned and used an electric vehicle). And the biggest source of income from the charge points was in parking fines for people parking their gasoline cars in the electric charging bays.

But you have to have the infrastructure in place to encourage people to buy the things rather than realise "oh 3 million people have electric cars. We should probably start installing charge points".

Yeah, that's interesting. I guess the issue here is that the drive for me from Toronto to my Cottage is roughly 100km further than the drive from Enniskillen to Bangor or Newry to Derry or whatever else might be a drive across most of Northern Ireland. So with all that space to cover you might hope this promotes the viability of the electric car for longer trips in a way you might not need to in a smaller country.
 
bustaheims said:
cabber24 said:
I say forget these charging stations and let people who want one stay close to home because building a fraction of the required infrastructure to support a 40 minute charge does not make sense.

These things don't require a ton of infrastructure. They can basically be installed in any existing parking lot. For example, a couple spots in a grocery store parking lot could host charging stations, so people can plug in their cars while the shop. They don't have to build a bunch of new lots, buildings, or anything like that to install these things. They can be integrated into the existing infrastructure.

A lot of newer complexes already have EV spots marked out exactly this way.

I'd love to see the cars (and roads) integrate more photovoltaic technology into their existing builds too, but they're currently quite slow and inefficient.

My dream would be induction charging while driving (some kind of crowd sourced magnetic induction generator built into the roads).
 
Frank E said:
You're into a pretty hefty debate in terms of if this is the best way to spend tax dollars toward that goal.

This isn't being done in isolation though. It's part of a comprehensive strategy to encourage electric cars. Making them more convenient and able to suit your needs is just part of the strategy and it's a minimal outlay.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Even if this reduces carbon emissions a little or promotes electric car manufacturing, I think that's a pretty reasonable investment.

That's not a compelling argument because it ignores the alternatives available for $40m.

The biggest offenders are the older vehicles (10 years + old) on the road, and I lean more toward incentives to get those vehicles off the road.  The issue at hand is mainly the people that drive those vehicles don't generally have the money to drive newer less polluting vehicles.

Keep in mind, even newer gas vehicle emit at a rate that is a fraction of what new vehicles were emitting just 10 years ago.

Paris recently took action on older cars:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/02/paris-drives-old-cars-off-the-streets-in-push-to-improve-air-quality
 
cabber24 said:
Go on a road trip with one of these cars and tell me how it works out. Convince me that waiting a minimum of 40 minutes to charge while traveling makes sense.

Driving an EV is not the same as driving a regular car. It takes forethought and more rigorous route planning. People have crossed America in a Tesla because they have juuuusst enough Superstations or motel EV chargers thanks to their population density. You can charge for as long as you need, or as long as you can afford to.

It's basically a 40 minute break for every 2ish hours of driving.
 
cabber24 said:
Go on a road trip with one of these cars and tell me how it works out. Convince me that waiting a minimum of 40 minutes to charge while traveling makes sense.

40 minutes, I'm pretty sure, is the time to go from 0-80%. Realistically you wouldn't wait until you hit 0. As with my example, if my electric car had a range of 250 km and I charged in Peterborough I'd be charging from 40% or so.
 
Frank E said:
That's not a compelling argument because it ignores the alternatives available for $40m.

No it doesn't. I'm not framing it as an alternative. It's not an either/or.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Frank E said:
You're into a pretty hefty debate in terms of if this is the best way to spend tax dollars toward that goal.

This isn't being done in isolation though. It's part of a comprehensive strategy to encourage electric cars. Making them more convenient and able to suit your needs is just part of the strategy and it's a minimal outlay.

Maybe, but as in other countries that have gone down this road, it doesn't really address the bigger source of the pollution.

Right now, electric vehicles are an expensive luxury that won't be mainstream for years, perhaps even never if fuel cell technology has some more breakthroughs in the coming decade. Spending money on a charging infrastructure that will likely be obsolete soon is not where I'd be spending money, especially given the state of the books of the province.
 
Frank E said:
Maybe, but as in other countries that have gone down this road, it doesn't really address the bigger source of the pollution.

It's really not a maybe. This is part of a broader strategy and you're presenting a false dichotomy.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/06/07/revealed-ontarios-climate-change-action-plan.html

A new ?cash-for-clunkers? program will be launched to replace jalopies with new or used electric cars.

?The province intends to help get older and less fuel-efficient vehicles off the roads by offering a rebate to low- and moderate-income households that will help them replace old cars with new or used electric vehicles or a plug-in hybrid,? it continues.

Details of the rebates and subsidies are still being worked out and should come later this year.
 

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