The Shanaplan - Building the Leafs Toward Stanley Cup Contention

[TBLeafer]

Sigh.

Everything depends on what happens over the next couple weeks, this summer, and next summer. But if everything goes according to plan, the wait for a Stanley Cup parade in Toronto might finally be over sooner than you might think.

I'm sure this cautiously optimistic summation is then also total nonsense and doesn't make any basic sense based on the data provided.

While you might be incredibly frustrated by Nik's argument, which I think contains an appropriate dose of reality, you really set yourself up for it with an opening statement like this:

This is a wonderfully constructed article that basically falls perfectly in line with everything I've been saying since signing up on this forum

So the both the data in the article and sentiment posted doesn't support the Leafs being in contention the season after next if we sign Stamkos?  Because that's basically what I've been saying.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'm all for being optimistic, but there is a dishonesty to it all when you start using your gut instead of the quantifiable information we have now and accept that the rest is largely unknown.

I am as optimistic as you can get, I mean there is a serious Leafs fan inside me screaming that we're making the playoffs next year, but you have to concede that with the information we presently have we don't really know and can't really project much about the team with so many unknowns.

I also find the article a little disingenuous too, he looks to where each prospect had statistically their best outcome and used that to project how they are going to turn out.

I mean at a certain point it's just content for the sake of creating content.

 

[Kin]

While you might be incredibly frustrated by Nik's argument, which I think contains an appropriate dose of reality, you really set yourself up for it with an opening statement like this:

This is a wonderfully constructed article that basically falls perfectly in line with everything I've been saying since signing up on this forum

Exactly. My first post in this thread wasn't "to discredit" the author of this article. I think it's an interesting, if not within 1,000 light years of being definitive, article.

What my post was doing was highlighting that there's a massive difference between what the author was saying which seems to be "If everything goes right, the Leafs will be in good shape and quickly" and what's more been the tenor here which is "Everything going right for the Leafs is the only possible option and making any plans around anything else is advocating being the Edmonton Oilers".

 

[Kin]

I am as optimistic as you can get, I mean there is a serious Leafs fan inside me screaming that we're making the playoffs next year, but you have to concede that with the information we presently have we don't really know and can't really project much about the team with so many unknowns.

And just to pivot off this...it has to be said that anyone who's a Maple Leafs fan right now? Essentially has to be an optimist in some shape or form. If you really believed things wouldn't get better for the franchise, you'd probably have given up on them by now. I'm the only Leafs fan in my family and my fandom, in their eyes, essentially makes me the patron saint of lost causes.

Thinking things will get better makes you an optimist. Thinking things will go perfectly makes you a fantasist.

 

[TBLeafer]

I'm all for being optimistic, but there is a dishonesty to it all when you start using your gut instead of the quantifiable information we have now and accept that the rest is largely unknown.

I am as optimistic as you can get, I mean there is a serious Leafs fan inside me screaming that we're making the playoffs next year, but you have to concede that with the information we presently have we don't really know and can't really project much about the team with so many unknowns.

I also find the article a little disingenuous too, he looks to where each prospect had statistically their best outcome and used that to project how they are going to turn out.

I mean at a certain point it's just content for the sake of creating content.

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

I'm being subjective, yes.  Dishonest?  No.  I trust my gut.  There is no such thing as pure objectivity.

Is there any real reason to believe that Stamkos won't push us over that playoff bubble in a year or two and firmly into contention?

Is there any real reason to believe that we'll be handcuffed beyond this season cap wise in any way with him on the roster?

 

[TBLeafer]

I am as optimistic as you can get, I mean there is a serious Leafs fan inside me screaming that we're making the playoffs next year, but you have to concede that with the information we presently have we don't really know and can't really project much about the team with so many unknowns.

And just to pivot off this...it has to be said that anyone who's a Maple Leafs fan right now? Essentially has to be an optimist in some shape or form. If you really believed things wouldn't get better for the franchise, you'd probably have given up on them by now. I'm the only Leafs fan in my family and my fandom, in their eyes, essentially makes me the patron saint of lost causes.

Thinking things will get better makes you an optimist. Thinking things will go perfectly makes you a fantasist.

There's no happy medium?  Things going perfectly would lead to the Leafs winning the Stanley Cup to celebrate their centennial, would it not?

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'm all for being optimistic, but there is a dishonesty to it all when you start using your gut instead of the quantifiable information we have now and accept that the rest is largely unknown.

I am as optimistic as you can get, I mean there is a serious Leafs fan inside me screaming that we're making the playoffs next year, but you have to concede that with the information we presently have we don't really know and can't really project much about the team with so many unknowns.

I also find the article a little disingenuous too, he looks to where each prospect had statistically their best outcome and used that to project how they are going to turn out.

I mean at a certain point it's just content for the sake of creating content.

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

I'm being subjective, yes.  Dishonest?  No.  I trust my gut.  There is no such thing as pure objectivity.

Is there any real reason to believe that Stamkos won't push us over that playoff bubble in a year or two and firmly into contention?

Is there any real reason to believe that we'll be handcuffed beyond this season cap wise in any way with him on the roster?

Well, the answer to all of those that's been presented to you is yes it is a possibility and one that's just as realistic as the alternative, the literal truth is that not one person knows.

You are asking others to trust your gut, that's not realistic and you have to accept that.

Also to add to Nik's point, I think all of us that are here are optimistic about things getting better for the Leafs, some are just more tied to reality and less prone to whimsical thoughts dressed up as absolutes.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I am as optimistic as you can get, I mean there is a serious Leafs fan inside me screaming that we're making the playoffs next year, but you have to concede that with the information we presently have we don't really know and can't really project much about the team with so many unknowns.

And just to pivot off this...it has to be said that anyone who's a Maple Leafs fan right now? Essentially has to be an optimist in some shape or form. If you really believed things wouldn't get better for the franchise, you'd probably have given up on them by now. I'm the only Leafs fan in my family and my fandom, in their eyes, essentially makes me the patron saint of lost causes.

Thinking things will get better makes you an optimist. Thinking things will go perfectly makes you a fantasist.

Dude, that is a goldmine waiting for you when they all come crawling back whenever the Leafs do turn it around.

Hopefully, you'll be able to enjoy it as you'll likely be deep into your retirement by that point.

:'(

 

[Kin]

Dude, that is a goldmine waiting for you when they all come crawling back whenever the Leafs do turn it around.

Hopefully, you'll be able to enjoy it as you'll likely be deep into your retirement by that point.

:'(

To be clear, they're perfectly nice about it. They're just not really hockey fans and, from the outside looking in, it sure does seem like a particularly expensive sort of masochism.

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/brendanshanahan/status/745416613952905220.

I AM ONE WITH THE SHABAPLAN!
#SHABAPLAN

 

[Bullfrog]

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

I'm being subjective, yes.  Dishonest?  No.  I trust my gut.  There is no such thing as pure objectivity.

Is there any real reason to believe that Stamkos won't push us over that playoff bubble in a year or two and firmly into contention?

Is there any real reason to believe that we'll be handcuffed beyond this season cap wise in any way with him on the roster?

I have some homeopathic medicine for you that should cure that.

Is there any real reason to believe one player won't push the team into contention within a year? Yes, and it's basically that there's 18 other players on the active roster that have an influence on the team's fortunes. But, seriously, there's a 600 page Stamkos thread where we can discuss this.

 

[Kin]

There's no happy medium?  Things going perfectly would lead to the Leafs winning the Stanley Cup to celebrate their centennial, would it not?

There isn't a medium because it's not like things getting better gradually and things going perfectly are two extremes. The two extremes would be things going perfectly and things going terribly. Thinking that the Leafs, if they're patient and allow for the fact that even the best front offices make big mistakes, can eventually build a model franchise is pretty firmly on the positive side of things.

 

[bustaheims]

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

You do realize that your "gut" is really just the part of your mind that's responsible for making decisions without analyzing situations rationally, right? It's the part of your consciousness that lies to you more than anything else. It may be the most truly you, but it's certainly not the most honest.

 

[TBLeafer]

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

You do realize that your "gut" is really just the part of your mind that's responsible for making decisions without analyzing situations rationally, right? It's the part of your consciousness that lies to you more than anything else. It may be the most truly you, but it's certainly not the most honest.

Disagree. Your gut doesn't make decisions, hence going against your gut. And it can unquestionably be wrong, hence Nonis signing Clarkson, but it isn't dishonest or untruthful.

 

[Redleaf]

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

You do realize that your "gut" is really just the part of your mind that's responsible for making decisions without analyzing situations rationally, right? It's the part of your consciousness that lies to you more than anything else. It may be the most truly you, but it's certainly not the most honest.

Disagree. Your gut doesn't make decisions, hence going against your gut. And it can unquestionably be wrong, hence Nonis signing Clarkson, but it isn't dishonest or untruthful.

I have a gut feeling you're right about this.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

You do realize that your "gut" is really just the part of your mind that's responsible for making decisions without analyzing situations rationally, right? It's the part of your consciousness that lies to you more than anything else. It may be the most truly you, but it's certainly not the most honest.

Disagree. Your gut doesn't make decisions, hence going against your gut. And it can unquestionably be wrong, hence Nonis signing Clarkson, but it isn't dishonest or untruthful.

I have a gut feeling you're right about this.

You don't honestly believe that?!?!

 

[TBLeafer]

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

You do realize that your "gut" is really just the part of your mind that's responsible for making decisions without analyzing situations rationally, right? It's the part of your consciousness that lies to you more than anything else. It may be the most truly you, but it's certainly not the most honest.

Disagree. Your gut doesn't make decisions, hence going against your gut. And it can unquestionably be wrong, hence Nonis signing Clarkson, but it isn't dishonest or untruthful.

I have a gut feeling you're right about this.

Lol, thanks for the support.

I just want it stated that I have the utmost respect for my highly intelligent adversaries in these matters.

They are very on the ball even though I don't share their thought process and make a lot of sense about being ultra patient.

I just knew Shanahan wouldn't be ultra patient from all I've learned over the last two years, regarding how he plans on going about this ground up rebuild. His patience has limits and he still wants to establish his next core as quickly as possible.

The Andersen signing shows us that.

 

[Highlander]

Your gut is the most honest thing in your body that you have.  Its the mind that plays games and purely going off stats is purely cerebral.

You do realize that your "gut" is really just the part of your mind that's responsible for making decisions without analyzing situations rationally, right? It's the part of your consciousness that lies to you more than anything else. It may be the most truly you, but it's certainly not the most honest.

Disagree. Your gut doesn't make decisions, hence going against your gut. And it can unquestionably be wrong, hence Nonis signing Clarkson, but it isn't dishonest or untruthful.

I have a gut feeling you're right about this.

We have been on the road for 3 weeks sellling and our guts hurt, I want shares in baby wipes, seriously.
St.Maarten is the worst, diarrhoea for all the days we were there.  So beware. LOL

 

[mr grieves]

I'm sure someone will be by post Truthiness at some point, but, before he gets here, Rielley's negative WAR is troubling.

I looked at another of the author's posts**, and it suggests that contending teams only really get 3 GAR from their top 2 D... but Gardiner's at 1 and Rielly just broke even this season. So I was wondering whether anyone's done any work on defensemen's development with respect to this stat. Were any current 1Ds on contending teams similarly nearly replacement level when they were 22?

** link: http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/eight-simple-rules-for-building-a-stanley-cup-contender/

 

[herman]

To paraphrase Dubas, "your [guts] are lying sons of bitches in the worst way."