The Unofficial Fire Ron Wilson/Ron Wilson is the Greatest Thread

[Corn Flake]

At the same time, it's really interesting to hear Paul Maurice give his spin on things. I don't have the link here, but he went on to say that "The players work for the coach but they play for each other." And he went on to say that a team gives up on each other long before they tune out the coach.

Really gives an insight into things that we really have no idea about.

And to me, the effort last night showed again that they have not quit on Wilson.  Is Wilson's coaching working?  I'd say no, but there is a difference between those things.  I think things are at a point now where its going to probably not get better until a change is made, but the true sign they have quit is no effort.  Quit on each other?  That could very well be the case for sure. They certainly don't or can't trust each other on the ice much right now. 

 

[Kin]

I wouldn't object to an interim guy until more choices present themselves but realistically, I don't think it does much (probably nothing in fact) to improve our playoff chances.

Well, ok, but even you would have to admit that it's an unknowable and, again, if the guy deserves to be fired, what good does it do to keep him around? Even if the playoffs are out of the team's grasp do you really want the message to be "Eh, it's over, we'll address what's wrong later" over the course of the last quarter of the season?

 

[Corn Flake]

Interesting take on Wilson from Roenick.  Sorry if this was posted already.

http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20120229_152923_6268

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, ok, but even you would have to admit that it's an unknowable and, again, if the guy deserves to be fired, what good does it do to keep him around? Even if the playoffs are out of the team's grasp do you really want the message to be "Eh, it's over, we'll address what's wrong later" over the course of the last quarter of the season?

Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure most of our players deserve much of a positive message from Burke at all. I'm thinking Burke did that by showing faith (albeit misguided faith) in this crew at the deadline. Personally, I think it's on the players now to show something... The only message I'd give the players right now if I were Burke is a six-week-long death stare.

 

[Kin]

Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure most of our players deserve much of a positive message from Burke at all.

Firing Wilson isn't an affirmation of the players. It would, however, provide a pretty clear and fair message that if the job someone does isn't exemplary of the quality expected by the Maple Leafs they get tossed out on their ear. I'd hope the players would take that as a warning.

 

[maplesyrup]

Firing Wilson isn't an affirmation of the players. It would, however, provide a pretty clear and fair message that if the job someone does isn't exemplary of the quality expected by the Maple Leafs they get tossed out on their ear. I'd hope the players would take that as a warning.

Yeah but that's clearly not the case here (see the deadline.)

 

[Kin]

Yeah but that's clearly not the case here (see the deadline.)

Well, ok, but we don't have a duty to continue our errors out of respect for consistency.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, ok, but we don't have a duty to continue our errors out of respect for consistency.

So why start with Wilson?

 

[Kin]

So why start with Wilson?

Well, because you can't start with trading players post-deadline and you have to start somewhere.

 

[maplesyrup]

Well, because you can't start with trading players post-deadline and you have to start somewhere.

No... but you can start hauling in your players one by one and read them the riot act and to my knowledge, he hasn't done that. Heck, I'd have Wilson there right with me and make each guy explain why the shouldn't be relegated to the press box - Our captain included.   

 

[Kin]

No... but you can start hauling in your players one by one and read them the riot act and to my knowledge, he hasn't done that.

They're not 5 year olds. Yelling at them, which I would be pretty sure that Wilson has tried, isn't actually doing anything. The guys on the team know that they can't all be put in the press box.

The team should start by actually doing something. The only guy right now that can really be shown the door is Wilson.

 

[maplesyrup]

The team should start by actually doing something.

Our 2011/2012 season in a nutshell, folks!

 

[Tigger]

the effort last night showed again that they have not quit on Wilson.

Yeah, I don't think they've quit on him either, they may be a little anxious about a few of their fellow players but I don't think they've quit on each other too, more tentative after getting burned a couple times. If they'd quit on Gustavsson I don't know if Schenn would have gone after Shaw last night for example (nice to see him back in gnarly mode again)

 

[pnjunction]

You know I still think Wilson should be finished here but I think some people have a point when they say Burke really failed him this year by not having any veteran goaltending presence.

We have a goalie coach that hasn't actually played in the NHL himself, and two inexperience goalies.  Barely 100 games goaltending experience in the entire organization coming into the season and it shows.

Also, and I know this has been beaten to death, but what about doing what many panelists have been saying: fire Allaire and replace him with a one page memo in big letters STOP THE PUCK.  Beyond the usual complacent "it's too late" stuff, is it time to move on soon?  From the outside one can suspect that Reimer did well last year because of Giguere's tutelage as much as Allaire's given how he has fallen apart this year. 

Remember how well Reimer bounced back from bad performances last year?  I have to think Giguere with his ~500 games in the trenches is the  bigger influence there compared to a technical coach that hasn't played an NHL game in his life.  Others have noticed how Reimer especially would take to Giggy between plays or after goals and it seemed to really calm him down.  With Reimer and Gus we really don't see this stuff, first they are both young guys and 2nd Gus regardless of his talent level seems to be an introverted personality.  He's staring at the boards in silence while Reimer is at bench trying to shake off a bad goal.

On Gustavsson to me still looks his best when he loosens up and plays a more athletic style.  Could this be why he's so much better when he's on a run, instead of coming in cold?  More in the moment, and less time for over-analyzing and for Allaire to mess with his 'natural' game.  The mystic 'confidence' is probably part of this, a confident Gus is probably not thinking as hard about sticking withing the rigid Allaire framework and more likely to make the reflex saves and 2nd-effort stops that goalies need to make in this league.

Unfortunately I think Gus is more likely to go than Allaire in the off-season.  I'm still not sure if he'll boom or bust before his NHL career is over but I think he deserves another shot with another goalie coach and he'll likely get it, here or elsewhere.

Hmm most of that probably belonged in a topic about goaltending...ah well. 

 

[Corn Flake]

Those ripping Allaire's qualifications know he coached Roy, right?  Just wanted to mention that.

 

[Tigger]

Those ripping Allaire's qualifications know he coached Roy, right?  Just wanted to mention that.

Luongo too.

 

[Bender]

You know I still think Wilson should be finished here but I think some people have a point when they say Burke really failed him this year by not having any veteran goaltending presence.

We have a goalie coach that hasn't actually played in the NHL himself, and two inexperience goalies.  Barely 100 games goaltending experience in the entire organization coming into the season and it shows.

Also, and I know this has been beaten to death, but what about doing what many panelists have been saying: fire Allaire and replace him with a one page memo in big letters STOP THE PUCK.  Beyond the usual complacent "it's too late" stuff, is it time to move on soon?  From the outside one can suspect that Reimer did well last year because of Giguere's tutelage as much as Allaire's given how he has fallen apart this year. 

Remember how well Reimer bounced back from bad performances last year?  I have to think Giguere with his ~500 games in the trenches is the  bigger influence there compared to a technical coach that hasn't played an NHL game in his life.  Others have noticed how Reimer especially would take to Giggy between plays or after goals and it seemed to really calm him down.  With Reimer and Gus we really don't see this stuff, first they are both young guys and 2nd Gus regardless of his talent level seems to be an introverted personality.  He's staring at the boards in silence while Reimer is at bench trying to shake off a bad goal.

On Gustavsson to me still looks his best when he loosens up and plays a more athletic style.  Could this be why he's so much better when he's on a run, instead of coming in cold?  More in the moment, and less time for over-analyzing and for Allaire to mess with his 'natural' game.  The mystic 'confidence' is probably part of this, a confident Gus is probably not thinking as hard about sticking withing the rigid Allaire framework and more likely to make the reflex saves and 2nd-effort stops that goalies need to make in this league.

Unfortunately I think Gus is more likely to go than Allaire in the off-season.  I'm still not sure if he'll boom or bust before his NHL career is over but I think he deserves another shot with another goalie coach and he'll likely get it, here or elsewhere.

Hmm most of that probably belonged in a topic about goaltending...ah well.

I love how people never look at the facts when discussing Allaire and only point to very weak conjecture.

Gustavsson himself stated he was following Allaire's style even back in Sweden. It's not like Allaire had acclaim and Gus had no idea what kind of style he was going to be taught. That's just so foolish I don't even know where to begin.

 

[TML fan]

Those ripping Allaire's qualifications know he coached Roy, right?  Just wanted to mention that.

Yeah, but does that really mean anything? Roy is arguably the greatest goaltender of all time. Are we to attribute that to Allaire, or Roy's own superb talent?

Allaire's list of credentials is pretty short for a guy with as much fanfare as he has. The fact that our goaltending hasn't improve one iota since his arrival makes me question whether or not the reputation is deserved.

Of course, we could just have really bad goalies...I still think its reasonable to question Allaire at this point.

 

[pnjunction]

Gustavsson himself stated he was following Allaire's style even back in Sweden. It's not like Allaire had acclaim and Gus had no idea what kind of style he was going to be taught. That's just so foolish I don't even know where to begin.

You can begin by telling us why you think our goalies suck this year.  Because they suck hard.

In the end I think my post blames that more on the lack of a veteran goalie than Allaire. 

There is no doubt though that being on his own with these two young goalies is failing hard.  It's plain to see.  They have no composure.  Maybe we can turn around and blame that on Wilson for the musical chairs game I guess.

 

[Tigger]

Allaire's list of credentials is pretty short for a guy with as much fanfare as he has.

Giguere thinks he'll be in the Hall of Fame, fwiw. I think in this case it has more to do with the inexperience of the goalies than anything else but neither may be a true starting goalie in the long run based on their own merits, few are.