Trade Deadline

[Highlander]

Have to highly disagree with you Frank. Babcock said the glaring weakness on the team was a 4C. Yes we have defensive issues to deal with but great defensemen do not grow on trees and they teams that have them can demand insane amounts that a team like Tampa just paid for a non Karlson player.
We have developed Dermott, Holl looked very good in his two games and we have Lilypad ready to go to launching pad, time to trust the Force Frank.

 

[Frank E]

Have to highly disagree with you Frank. Babcock said the glaring weakness on the team was a 4C. Yes we have defensive issues to deal with but great defensemen do not grow on trees and they teams that have them can demand insane amounts that a team like Tampa just paid for a non Karlson player.
We have developed Dermott, Holl looked very good in his two games and we have Lilypad ready to go to launching pad, time to trust the Force Frank.

Highlander, you're an optimistic guy, and bless you for that.  But if Babcock said that the team was only a 4C weak, then he's just plain delusional.  That, or he's just lying.

We all know where the real weakness is, and they simply didn't address it this year, and they don't have internal options to address it.  They've wasted a Vezina caliber season of goaltending, and a 2nd round pick, on a hope and a prayer. 

 

[Kin]

Well, right, but the latter is what makes the former so hard to understand.

Sure, from a pure asset management POV it doesn't make sense, but, from the perspective of thinking they have an outside shot at something? I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.

But if you think you have an outside chance and that means something to them why not turn their expiring contracts into assets they could then use to bolster that outside chance and that can't walk in the summer.

Just seems like more of the same Polak/Sosh/Komarov inability to read and adapt. This team, that used to feel cutting edge and aggressive, now seems either meek or delusional.

Honestly if this team sort of stalls out as NYR sorts of also-rans I think we'll look back on today as a big reason why.

 

[ZBBM]

Well, right, but the latter is what makes the former so hard to understand.

Sure, from a pure asset management POV it doesn't make sense, but, from the perspective of thinking they have an outside shot at something? I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.

But if you think you have an outside chance and that means something to them why not turn their expiring contracts into assets they could then use to bolster that outside chance and that can't walk in the summer.

Just seems like more of the same Polak/Sosh/Komarov inability to read and adapt. This team, that used to feel cutting edge and aggressive, now seems either meek or delusional.

Honestly if this team sort of stalls out as NYR sorts of also-rans I think we'll look back on today as a big reason why.

Now you are making me feel ill.

It seems like a long time ago that Dubas was new and seemed on the fast-track to become a dynamic, next-age GM.

 

[Highlander]

Have to highly disagree with you Frank. Babcock said the glaring weakness on the team was a 4C. Yes we have defensive issues to deal with but great defensemen do not grow on trees and they teams that have them can demand insane amounts that a team like Tampa just paid for a non Karlson player.
We have developed Dermott, Holl looked very good in his two games and we have Lilypad ready to go to launching pad, time to trust the Force Frank.

Highlander, you're an optimistic guy, and bless you for that.  But if Babcock said that the team was only a 4C weak, then he's just plain delusional.  That, or he's just lying.

We all know where the real weakness is, and they simply didn't address it this year, and they don't have internal options to address it.  They've wasted a Vezina caliber season of goaltending, and a 2nd round pick, on a hope and a prayer.

I never said that Frank, yes they were aware of D issues but were not ready to sell the farm for a Superstud or a semi one.  The demands that are asked can drain a teams prospect pool. Whats our rush? lets draft and develop two more D this year.  Lets only draft D this year if thats what needs to be done. Oh ya and one good C

 

[TML fan]

The Leafs are a long shot to get out of the first round. Personally, by not trading JVR, I think the Leafs got worse. Now you have 3 relatively important players who can walk in the summer, and fewer future assets than what you started with.

I get that maybe you don't want to give up on the season which would be the optics of trading JVR, but at the same time if the core players can't see the bigger picture, then the Leafs have worse problems than just not having assets to show for pending UFAs.

I feel that the Leafs have drifted slightly off course here and it worries me.

 

[ZBBM]

The Leafs are a long shot to get out of the first round. Personally, by not trading JVR, I think the Leafs got worse. Now you have 3 relatively important players who can walk in the summer, and fewer future assets than what you started with.

I get that maybe you don't want to give up on the season which would be the optics of trading JVR, but at the same time if the core players can't see the bigger picture, then the Leafs have worse problems than just not having assets to show for pending UFAs.

I feel that the Leafs have drifted slightly off course here and it worries me.

Hard to disagree with this.  But at least they didn't deal any of their high-end prospects.

For me, now that they've made their choices, I will look forward to the playoffs as a time for them to try to learn how to win in those kind of games w/o having any real expectations.  If Andersen stays hot, they could upset at least one team.

 

[A finnish leaf fan]

While I'm slightly upset the Leafs did next to nothing, I can understand why the management chose this path. Their recent run has put them back into contention for home ice for the first round (Tampa is probably out of reach now that they added McD but the Bruins will be losing a lot of points due to their heavy schedule to close the regular season). Thus, selling the pending key UFA's was not really an option due to the signal it would have given to the young players on the team (see Brayden Schenn's comments to the Blues trading Stastny, also a pending UFA, away and get my point). I'm sure the Leafs would have liked to add help on defense but the asking price was just too high with a lot of other teams having the same need. As it has been pointed out, the Leafs are not yet a Cup contender so spending a boatload of prospects and/or picks to improve was not an option. Adding a defensively sound middle-/bottom-pairing D to replace Polak would have been nice but that kind of players just were not available this time, at least not for a reasonable price.

 

[Boston Leaf]

you got to give something to get something.. At least we are not whining about losing any of our future prospects or Kapanen or Dermott etc.

As far as the 3 UFA's go who knows maybe they will somehow bring JVR back.. I could care less right now if Komarov walks but of the three he is most likely to be resigned for a year or two.

I have total trust in the crew (Lou, Shanny, Hunter, Dubas etc) they have done the right thing during this journey and I am sure know what they are doing.. They do no knee jerk reactions and figure they have discussed every scenario in total detail

 

[Andy007]

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here but are the Leafs really a doomed organization because they didn't want to part with a couple of firsts, Kapanen and the 2nd best D prospect after Liljegren? Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh who, while certainly fitting an area of concern, would either be gone or need to be retained with a mighty hefty cap hit after next year.

And I was on the record for being a proponent for moving JVR for a boatload and using those pieces to pick up McDonagh. I just understand why it wasn't, or couldn't be, done. I'm a huge Kapanen fan and while Johnsson looks pretty great in the AHL he hasn't played a single NHL game. The subtraction of JVR and Kapanen for this year's playoff run leaves some pretty big holes that can't be immediately filled. And simply trading the UFA's for futures doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a playoff team that is top 5 or 6 overall. This probaly isn't exactly how I would have played things out but I really can't see how this deadline day was "ridiculous" or a potential catalyst for the franchise "stalling out."

 

[Kin]

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here but are the Leafs really a doomed organization because they didn't want to part with a couple of firsts, Kapanen and the 2nd best D prospect after Liljegren?  Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh

I don't see where you get that. What Tampa traded was far more along the lines of Brown, Johnsson, Korshkov, a 1st and a conditional 1st than what you mention. Even if you want to say Namestnikov is more akin to Kapanen than Brown(despite being 4 years older than Kapanen and never scoring 40 points unitl this year) then even still that was the cost for McDonagh and Miller.

Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh who, while certainly fitting an area of concern, would either be gone or need to be retained with a mighty hefty cap hit after next year.

The Leafs are going to have to try to add to their blue line at some point and, yes, that means spending real money on a defenseman probably. McDonagh, who doesn't have the eyepopping offensive numbers that inflate contracts, could either be re-signed at a reasonable rate for a top pairing guy or he could also be flipped if the Leafs are on an endless search for a top pairing guy they don't have to pay real money to.

 

[Kin]

Seriously, they've been running the team for two years now and lots of good trades have been made around the league. What really good acquisitions have the Leafs made in these past two years? Marleau, Hainsey, Polak...?

I think we're sort of running out of time to praise how great they are for managing to win the Lottery.

 

[Andy007]

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here but are the Leafs really a doomed organization because they didn't want to part with a couple of firsts, Kapanen and the 2nd best D prospect after Liljegren?  Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh

I don't see where you get that. What Tampa traded was far more along the lines of Brown, Johnsson, Korshkov, a 1st and a conditional 1st than what you mention. Even if you want to say Namestnikov is more akin to Kapanen than Brown(despite being 4 years older than Kapanen and never scoring 40 points unitl this year) then even still that was the cost for McDonagh and Miller.

Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh who, while certainly fitting an area of concern, would either be gone or need to be retained with a mighty hefty cap hit after next year.

The Leafs are going to have to try to add to their blue line at some point and, yes, that means spending real money on a defenseman probably. McDonagh, who doesn't have the eyepopping offensive numbers that inflate contracts, could either be re-signed at a reasonable rate for a top pairing guy or he could also be flipped if the Leafs are on an endless search for a top pairing guy they don't have to pay real money to.

You know, for some reason I thought Namestnikov was a fair bit younger than 25. I picked him up in my fantasy league earlier this year and thought this was his first full season. So yea, I guess I was missing something here  :-X

As for McDonagh, well, he signed this deal at 23 so I think that's more of a factor of his relatively cheap cap-hit as opposed to the lack of eye-popping statistics. I think he'll fetch a pretty penny as an FA.

I think I'd rather that cap hit be available for a similar (or better) defenseman who can play the right side. Granted that's a tough pursuit and the deal you proposed for McDonagh is quite more palatable to me (if NY was inclined to accept that and keep Miller, that is) but I still can't say that not getting McDonagh is some kind of calamity. Leafs are still in a good position imo. We just need somebody to break Polak's knee so he never sees the Leafs blueline again.

 

[Andy007]

Seriously, they've been running the team for two years now and lots of good trades have been made around the league. What really good acquisitions have the Leafs made in these past two years? Marleau, Hainsey, Polak...?

I think we're sort of running out of time to praise how great they are for managing to win the Lottery.

Paging Frederik Andersen...  

 

[Kin]

As for McDonagh, well, he signed this deal at 23 so I think that's more of a factor of his relatively cheap cap-hit as opposed to the lack of eye-popping statistics. I think he'll fetch a pretty penny as an FA.

I think I'd rather that cap hit be available for a similar (or better) defenseman who can play the right side. Granted that's a tough pursuit and the deal you proposed for McDonagh is quite more palatable to me (if NY was inclined to accept that and keep Miller, that is) but I still can't say that not getting McDonagh is some kind of calamity. Leafs are still in a good position imo. We just need somebody to break Polak's knee so he never sees the Leafs blueline again.

I don't think making, or not making, any one move is disastrous. I do think that somehow coming out of yesterday without improving their chances in the mid/long-term(despite moves being available to do so) and not improving their assets is emblematic of a management team that seems to be coasting or, and I think this is the most charitable read, sitting on their thumbs until the absolute perfect situation comes across their path.

Because if they're waiting for a top pairing D to fall out of the sky who doesn't need to get paid a hefty chunk of money and doesn't cost a metric ton in terms of asset cost and fits in ideally to their LD/RD depth chart then they're going to be waiting a very long time.

 

[Kin]

Paging Frederik Andersen...

I more meant in the time since last season started and definitely within the last year once it's become clear that the guys they more or less inherited/fell into have things ahead of schedule. Fair point that Andersen is a big part of that but even that's running a little thin to be hanging a hat on.

 

[herman]

https://theathletic.com/254686/2018/02/27/mirtle-why-the-leafs-missed-out-on-ryan-mcdonagh-and-other-trade-deadline-thoughts/

Basically, their hard line expanded beyond the obvious three to encompass Liljegren and Dermott.
Lou:

?There's no question the development of Dermott has played a role in a lot of our thought process,? Lamoriello said, before later adding on a radio appearance, ?When he did come in and get an opportunity, I mean, he made an immediate impact. That was the thought process when we were looking at maybe seeing if we should and could make us better in that area. Right now we feel very good about our defence.?

Transcription of Lou's presser at 4pm yesterday:
https://www.mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/02/26/lou-lamoriello-addresses-media-deadline-feel-good-way-club-come-along-improvement-young-players/

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Reading Corey Pronman's review of prospects traded yesterday, it sure sounds like both the guys New York got from Tampa are mid-level prospects. It's very difficult for me to believe that we couldn't have beaten that offer without giving up Kapanen/Dermott/Liljegren.

 

[Andy007]

As for McDonagh, well, he signed this deal at 23 so I think that's more of a factor of his relatively cheap cap-hit as opposed to the lack of eye-popping statistics. I think he'll fetch a pretty penny as an FA.

I think I'd rather that cap hit be available for a similar (or better) defenseman who can play the right side. Granted that's a tough pursuit and the deal you proposed for McDonagh is quite more palatable to me (if NY was inclined to accept that and keep Miller, that is) but I still can't say that not getting McDonagh is some kind of calamity. Leafs are still in a good position imo. We just need somebody to break Polak's knee so he never sees the Leafs blueline again.

I don't think making, or not making, any one move is disastrous. I do think that somehow coming out of yesterday without improving their chances in the mid/long-term(despite moves being available to do so) and not improving their assets is emblematic of a management team that seems to be coasting or, and I think this is the most charitable read, sitting on their thumbs until the absolute perfect situation comes across their path.

Because if they're waiting for a top pairing D to fall out of the sky who doesn't need to get paid a hefty chunk of money and doesn't cost a metric ton in terms of asset cost and fits in ideally to their LD/RD depth chart then they're going to be waiting a very long time.

You know, I really I can't argue with anything you've said. As I mentioned, I was in the "JVR for futures and futures + for McDonagh" camp.  I'm just not really sure standing pat yesterday is a make-it or break-it situation. Now if we go into next season's playoffs and Hainsey is still on the top pairing and Polak (or someone thereof) is sniffing around the starting lineup then I might start to get worried..

 

[Kin]

Reading Corey Pronman's review of prospects traded yesterday, it sure sounds like both the guys New York got from Tampa are mid-level prospects. It's very difficult for me to believe that we couldn't have beaten that offer without giving up Kapanen/Dermott/Liljegren.

I think they almost certainly could have if anyone outside of the Maple Leafs front office knew who Yegor Korshkov was.