Training Camp - Sept 11

[Champ Kind]

Percy has a lot of poise and a good first pass, but he did seem overmatched at times.

I'd have kept Mac ahead of Holzer for sure though.

I'm wondering: does Holzer have to pass through wavers to be sent down? 

 

[bustaheims]

I'd have kept Mac ahead of Holzer for sure though.

That one might be a little bit of a cap move, as Holzer's cap hit is ~$100K less than MacWilliam's (not including potential bonuses MacWilliam could hit). Considering they're competing to be the 7th defence man (8th if/when Franson is signed), taking the slightly smaller cap hit is probably the right choice, since, right now, the Leafs need every penny they can save against the cap.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Percy has a lot of poise and a good first pass, but he did seem overmatched at times.

I'd have kept Mac ahead of Holzer for sure though.

I'm wondering: does Holzer have to pass through wavers to be sent down? 

Yes, he does.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'd have kept Mac ahead of Holzer for sure though.

That one might be a little bit of a cap move, as Holzer's cap hit is ~$100K less than MacWilliam's (not including potential bonuses MacWilliam could hit). Considering they're competing to be the 7th defence man (8th if/when Franson is signed), taking the slightly smaller cap hit is probably the right choice, since, right now, the Leafs need every penny they can save against the cap.

I think it's also a little about what's best for his development. Percy is in the same boat. Both looked good in training camp but are entering their first professional seasons and the Leafs have a fair amount of defensive depth on their team. Even if they did crack the club like you said it wouldn't be as anymore more than a 7th defenceman at this point. It's better that they both go to the AHL and soak up what they can there.

With Holzer you're at a point where what you see is what you get. Hanging out in the pressbox likely won't stunt his career at this point. Although I'm still saying Brennan gets the 7 spot.

 

[Crucialness Key]

Percy has a lot of poise and a good first pass, but he did seem overmatched at times.

I'd have kept Mac ahead of Holzer for sure though.

I'm wondering: does Holzer have to pass through wavers to be sent down? 

Yes, he does.

Given our defensive depth and cap situation, would somebody almost be doing us a favour if they took Holzer?

 

[bustaheims]

Given our defensive depth and cap situation, would somebody almost be doing us a favour if they took Holzer?

It really wouldn't help the cap. Holzer being a Marlie or being in another organization have the exact same impact on the Leafs' cap situation.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So with Clarkson out I'm assuming the logical move is to bump Kulemin back up with Kadri and Lupul? They had success last season. I doubt the 2nd line will be effected much by the suspension but Kuli's absence really hurts line 3 I think.

 

[Bullfrog]

That or Raymond, I suppose.

 

[Redleaf]

That or Raymond, I suppose.

Yeah. I think Raymond makes more sense for the 2nd line. Kulemin with Bolland and Ashton or Colborne makes for a decent 3rd line.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

That or Raymond, I suppose.

I thought he'd be a better fit too at first, but it seems like he's only played left wing in his career. And JVR or Lupul aren't switching to the right side. I suppose Raymond could switch for a month but I think Carlyle will just use Kulemin because of the familiarity factor.

 

[Crucialness Key]

That or Raymond, I suppose.

I thought he'd be a better fit too at first, but it seems like he's only played left wing in his career. And JVR or Lupul aren't switching to the right side. I suppose Raymond could switch for a month but I think Carlyle will just use Kulemin because of the familiarity factor.

Yeah it makes sense to me to go with Kulemin on the 2nd line because then, at least, the top 2 lines are all familiar with each other... also Bolland/Raymond can develop their chemistry on the 3rd line.

My worry is that Ashton does so well on the 3rd line that after 10 games, Kulemin gets traded for cap space to re-sign Franson.  I really like Kulemin...

ETA -- apparently Kulemin is with Kadri/Lupul for today's game according to Iaboni.

 

[ZBBM]

Well, to return to the Rielly debate, Carlton commented in the GDT that last night was his worst outing defensively so far.  I have seen only part of 2 games with him, and I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on him all the time because you can see he's got real offensive skills (very similar to Gardiner, who DID look good last night).  But it's apparent that he's going to have to model his defensive game on someone like Leetch or Lidstrom, and it's going to take awhile to learn that positional style of defending.

In what I've seen so far, he's not even close to the very high bar that several on here have suggested that he needs to meet in order to jump right into the NHL.  He certainly looked rather lost on the last OTT goal, and wasn't effective on their 2nd either.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Well, to return to the Rielly debate, Carlton commented in the GDT that last night was his worst outing defensively so far.  I have seen only part of 2 games with him, and I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on him all the time because you can see he's got real offensive skills (very similar to Gardiner, who DID look good last night).  But it's apparent that he's going to have to model his defensive game on someone like Leetch or Lidstrom, and it's going to take awhile to learn that positional style of defending.

In what I've seen so far, he's not even close to the very high bar that several on here have suggested that he needs to meet in order to jump right into the NHL.  He certainly looked rather lost on the last OTT goal, and wasn't effective on their 2nd either.

I agree for the most part with this, when he has made errors or looked lost, often it's seemed to me that he has been caught trying to cover for his defensive partner and been caught between covering one attacker or the other and wound up in no-mans land.

I think decision making will improve here and he'll be able to predict outcomes of plays/overcommitting D partners more accurately once he has more experience at the pro level.

 

[hap_leaf]

Gardiner has looked sensational.  We are in for a real treat watching him this year.
Rielly just needs more time and he will get there.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Well, to return to the Rielly debate, Carlton commented in the GDT that last night was his worst outing defensively so far.  I have seen only part of 2 games with him, and I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on him all the time because you can see he's got real offensive skills (very similar to Gardiner, who DID look good last night).  But it's apparent that he's going to have to model his defensive game on someone like Leetch or Lidstrom, and it's going to take awhile to learn that positional style of defending.

In what I've seen so far, he's not even close to the very high bar that several on here have suggested that he needs to meet in order to jump right into the NHL.  He certainly looked rather lost on the last OTT goal, and wasn't effective on their 2nd either.

I haven't seen a replay or looked it up, but didn't the last Ottawa goal deflect off a Leafs player right onto the stick of the Ottawa player who immediately fired it in?  I don't think there was much he could have done there IIRC.

 

[Redleaf]

Well, to return to the Rielly debate, Carlton commented in the GDT that last night was his worst outing defensively so far.  I have seen only part of 2 games with him, and I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on him all the time because you can see he's got real offensive skills (very similar to Gardiner, who DID look good last night).  But it's apparent that he's going to have to model his defensive game on someone like Leetch or Lidstrom, and it's going to take awhile to learn that positional style of defending.

In what I've seen so far, he's not even close to the very high bar that several on here have suggested that he needs to meet in order to jump right into the NHL.  He certainly looked rather lost on the last OTT goal, and wasn't effective on their 2nd either.

I agree for the most part with this, when he has made errors or looked lost, often it's seemed to me that he has been caught trying to cover for his defensive partner and been caught between covering one attacker or the other and wound up in no-mans land.

I think decision making will improve here and he'll be able to predict outcomes of plays/overcommitting D partners more accurately once he has more experience at the pro level.

I actually thought Rielly played a half decent game last night. I see him getting more and more comfortable out there with every game. But you can tell he's struggling with finding a happy medium between his offensive game and his defensive game.

It's not hard to notice that he's been instructed to work on his defensive game this preseason, but boy can you ever see it when he flips the switch to offense.

I'd be very tempted to give him the 9 game tryout this year, especially with Franson likely out until after Clarksons suspension is over.

 

[Deebo]

I think decision making will improve here and he'll be able to predict outcomes of plays/overcommitting D partners more accurately once he has more experience at the pro level.

I think the only way to improve this aspect of his game is experience at the NHL level. Going back to junior where he'll have more time to make decisions won't help IMO.

 

[ZBBM]

Well, to return to the Rielly debate, Carlton commented in the GDT that last night was his worst outing defensively so far.  I have seen only part of 2 games with him, and I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on him all the time because you can see he's got real offensive skills (very similar to Gardiner, who DID look good last night).  But it's apparent that he's going to have to model his defensive game on someone like Leetch or Lidstrom, and it's going to take awhile to learn that positional style of defending.

In what I've seen so far, he's not even close to the very high bar that several on here have suggested that he needs to meet in order to jump right into the NHL.  He certainly looked rather lost on the last OTT goal, and wasn't effective on their 2nd either.

I haven't seen a replay or looked it up, but didn't the last Ottawa goal deflect off a Leafs player right onto the stick of the Ottawa player who immediately fired it in?  I don't think there was much he could have done there IIRC.

Yeah, that's why I hedged and said "rather" lost ... it wasn't entirely his fault but he was in no-man's-land like WIGWAL said.

 

[ZBBM]

I think decision making will improve here and he'll be able to predict outcomes of plays/overcommitting D partners more accurately once he has more experience at the pro level.

I think the only way to improve this aspect of his game is experience at the NHL level. Going back to junior where he'll have more time to make decisions won't help IMO.

A valid point, but keeping him up runs the risk of his getting burned over and over and developing bad habits in order to compensate.  As we all know, the ideal would be to season him this year in the AHL.  Since because of stupid rules that can't happen, it's a real dilemma.  I still haven't seen anything to make me change my mind that he should be sent back to junior with no NHL games, suboptimal though it would be.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I think decision making will improve here and he'll be able to predict outcomes of plays/overcommitting D partners more accurately once he has more experience at the pro level.

I think the only way to improve this aspect of his game is experience at the NHL level. Going back to junior where he'll have more time to make decisions won't help IMO.

A valid point, but keeping him up runs the risk of his getting burned over and over and developing bad habits in order to compensate.  As we all know, the ideal would be to season him this year in the AHL.  Since because of stupid rules that can't happen, it's a real dilemma.  I still haven't seen anything to make me change my mind that he should be sent back to junior with no NHL games, suboptimal though it would be.

Is there any way we could send him to Russia or Sweden to play on one of the top teams for a year?

He'd make some nice coin over there and would get the experience playing against pro's/men that he probably needs now.

The only down side might be the ice surface size confusing matters, but with his skating, more room to wheel might be an advantage.