2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Redleaf]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

I think this is where we hope that a couple of our Marlies can fill out the roster. Really hoping this is Robertson's year and maybe Steeves or Anderson.

I'm with you but I have never been excited by Robertson.  I hope I'm wrong.  Seems to me the door's wide open for him.

I originally thought Robertson had a lot of upside but that feeling is sort of fading with him. I?m more interested in see what Knies can bring to the team . Hopefully we see him at some point closer to playoff time this year.

This strikes me as shiny new toy syndrome a bit. I think if he can stay healthy he's got a shot. He put up almost a PPG in the A when he's played, and he played underage. Hopefully he can be better and knowing when to use his body and when to not.

Certainly to some extent it is that. But I?ve also seen Robertson?s stock fall off a little and Knies?s rise up and pass him in the Leafs prospect rankings from some analysts.

 

[Andy007]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

I think this is where we hope that a couple of our Marlies can fill out the roster. Really hoping this is Robertson's year and maybe Steeves or Anderson.

I'm with you but I have never been excited by Robertson.  I hope I'm wrong.  Seems to me the door's wide open for him.

I originally thought Robertson had a lot of upside but that feeling is sort of fading with him. I?m more interested in see what Knies can bring to the team . Hopefully we see him at some point closer to playoff time this year.

Robertson is merely 1 year older than Knies. An considering the amount of games and development he has lost due to injury, I think it would be silly to make any judgements this early.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/1548035218296057856

Not sure what the argument would be for Sandin getting considerably more than Liljegren. Liljegren was drafted higher than Sandin, is bigger, and plays the traditionally more valuable side. Liljegren has shown the ability to play PP and PK minutes, Sandin can do PP but will likely never be a PK guy.

Career numbers:
Liljegren has 74 GP, 24 points, 54.31 CF%, 54.95 GF%, 57.75 xGF%, 15:27 TOI
Sandin has 88 GP, 28 points, 54.40 CF%, 53.04 GF%, 55.17 xGF%, 15:53 TOI

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Sandin has shown very little to expect 2.6m a year. I like many things about his game. He has tools, but there is no real proof that he will work long term in the NHL. Certainly, he hasn't magically become worth 1.2 million more than Liljegren. I realize that part of these young players salaries is based on potential but I don't even think that the Leafs know if he will reach that potential or come close to it.

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/1548035218296057856

Not sure what the argument would be for Sandin getting considerably more than Liljegren. Liljegren was drafted higher than Sandin, is bigger, and plays the traditionally more valuable side. Liljegren has shown the ability to play PP and PK minutes, Sandin can do PP but will likely never be a PK guy.

Career numbers:
Liljegren has 74 GP, 24 points, 54.31 CF%, 54.95 GF%, 57.75 xGF%, 15:27 TOI
Sandin has 88 GP, 28 points, 54.40 CF%, 53.04 GF%, 55.17 xGF%, 15:53 TOI

I mean, it's great that he didn't look out of place initially compared to Liljegren but Lily has basically caught up to him in development now. All of those metrics have them as basically a wash and if the argument is he didn't get enough playing time to improve his numbers, well, that's kind of tough shit. If you get injured you can't argue you're worth more because of how you think you could have played. He's sounding like an entitled baby who's playing hardball like Nylander except he can't back it up.

Boqvist has played significantly more games and has a much higher ppg total, is younger, bigger and was taken 8th in the draft. How are they comparable but he and Lily not?

Don't want headache players on my team.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

He's sounding like an entitled baby who's playing hardball like Nylander except he can't back it up.

Hopefully that's not the case.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

He's sounding like an entitled baby who's playing hardball like Nylander except he can't back it up.

I don't agree with his position here but I do think this is a little bit harsh. Especially since like 90% of this is probably just his agent doing his job while Sandin himself is chilling at some nordic spa.

 

[Joe S.]

He's sounding like an entitled baby who's playing hardball like Nylander except he can't back it up.

Who is sounding like that? Is there a quote or something that was actually said?

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

He's sounding like an entitled baby who's playing hardball like Nylander except he can't back it up.

Who is sounding like that? Is there a quote or something that was actually said?

Only thing we really have is Friedman's take and Dubas saying the other day he would welcome an offer sheet for Sandin to move the process along. 

If anything, Sandin might be a little miffed at his fellow countrymen signing for $1.4 million. 

 

[Bender]

He's sounding like an entitled baby who's playing hardball like Nylander except he can't back it up.

I don't agree with his position here but I do think this is a little bit harsh. Especially since like 90% of this is probably just his agent doing his job while Sandin himself is chilling at some nordic spa.

I don't mean he himself necessarily, but there's a lot of talk through the media that he's upset with his playing time and his agent thinks he should be paid. I hate this kind of posturing just like I hated it with Marner and Nylander, except he's not nearly in that stratosphere, which is even more annoying.

 

[herman]

FWIW: Sandin has the same agent as Nylander. So I just read it as an agent doing his job.

Marner's agent is next level.

 

[herman]

Pulling this from the NHL General section

https://twitter.com/azadarski/status/1548392493657468928
The Leafs? list is not much better until 2014

Kind of feels like if a guy was drafted 10 or so years ago you wouldn't assume he would be with the same club necessarily. I don't look at Nazem Kadri and think "Boy, the Leafs moved on from him quickly."

I grabbed the data for fun; when we have first round picks, the Leafs give them plenty of runway.

Year	Player	Pick	Years in system	Seasons as Leaf
2022	Mrazek trade down CHI (Sam Rinzel)	25	N/A	N/A
2021	Foligno trade CBJ (Corson Ceulemans)	25	N/A	N/A
2020	Marleau trade CAR (Seth Jarvis)	13	N/A	N/A
2020	Rodion Amirov	15	2	0
2019	Muzzin acquired LAK (Tobias Bjornfot)	22	N/A	N/A
2018	Trade down STL (Dominik Bokk)	25	N/A	N/A
2018	Rasmus Sandin	29	4	3
2017	Timothy Liljegren	17	5	3
2016	Auston Matthews	1	6	6
2015	Mitch Marner	4	7	6
2015	Franson trade down PHI (Travis Konecny)	24	N/A	N/A
2015	Trade down TBL (Gabriel Carlsson)	29	N/A	N/A
2014	William Nylander	8	8	7
2013	Frederik Gauthier	21	7	5
2012	Morgan Rielly	5	10	9
2011	Kessel acquired BOS (Dougie Hamilton)	9	N/A	N/A
2011	Tyler Biggs	22	4	0
2011	Stuart Percy	25	5	2 (12 GP)
2011	Trade ANA (Rikard Rackell)	30	N/A	N/A
2010	Kessel acquired BOS (Tyler Seguin)	2	N/A	N/A
2009	Nazem Kadri	7	10	10

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/lukefoxjukebox/status/1548716130721841152

https://twitter.com/dalter/status/1548716073389883392

https://twitter.com/nickbarden/status/1548715365202644995

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/ieaffan/status/1548713224358469638

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It's ok at least we got... *checks notes*... goddamnit.

 

[princedpw]

cap-ologists seem to think Sandin and Engvall don?t both fit in the remaining space.

Predictions on the next shoe to drop?  Kerfoot?  Muzzin?  It seems unlikely to be Sandin (or Engvall) to me.  I also thing Holl is too valuable at his cap hit and handedness. I wouldn?t be at all surprised if he was paid 4 million/year if he was a UFA.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

cap-ologists seem to think Sandin and Engvall don?t both fit in the remaining space.

Predictions on the next shoe to drop?  Kerfoot?  Muzzin?  It seems unlikely to be Sandin (or Engvall) to me.  I also thing Holl is too valuable at his cap hit and handedness. I wouldn?t be at all surprised if he was paid 4 million/year if he was a UFA.

If Holl has potential teams willing to give him 4 million a year, he should be easy to move for a half decent asset. Of the above mentioned, despite his handedness, I think he leaves the smallest hole to fill if he's moved.

 

[Frank E]

cap-ologists seem to think Sandin and Engvall don?t both fit in the remaining space.

Predictions on the next shoe to drop?  Kerfoot?  Muzzin?  It seems unlikely to be Sandin (or Engvall) to me.  I also thing Holl is too valuable at his cap hit and handedness. I wouldn?t be at all surprised if he was paid 4 million/year if he was a UFA.

If Holl has potential teams willing to give him 4 million a year, he should be easy to move for a half decent asset. Of the above mentioned, despite his handedness, I think he leaves the smallest hole to fill if he's moved.

I'll eat my hat if Justin f'en Holl gets $4m.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'll eat my hat if Justin f'en Holl gets $4m.

$4mil's pushing it, but I'd take him over the two defencemen who did sign for $4mil this offseason (Leddy & Gudbranson).

 

[OldTimeHockey]

cap-ologists seem to think Sandin and Engvall don?t both fit in the remaining space.

Predictions on the next shoe to drop?  Kerfoot?  Muzzin?  It seems unlikely to be Sandin (or Engvall) to me.  I also thing Holl is too valuable at his cap hit and handedness. I wouldn?t be at all surprised if he was paid 4 million/year if he was a UFA.

If Holl has potential teams willing to give him 4 million a year, he should be easy to move for a half decent asset. Of the above mentioned, despite his handedness, I think he leaves the smallest hole to fill if he's moved.

I'll eat my hat if Justin f'en Holl gets $4m.

Someone should live stream that.