Captain Phaneuf

[Kin]

Again, the question for me boils down more to which Dion Phaneuf we're talking about.

NewDion vs. OldDion?

Coke Zero vs. Coke Classic.

 

[Crucialness Key]

As long as we're comparing different versions of Dion:

Celine Dion --> $74.8 million per year (2000-2009)
Stephane Dion --> roughly $150,000 per year in Parliament

So I'd say somewhere in between would be fair.

 

[Kin]

As long as we're comparing different versions of Dion:

Celine Dion --> $74.8 million per year (2000-2009)
Stephane Dion --> roughly $150,000 per year in Parliament

Jeez, and to think I could have gotten into the Dog Whistle business.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

In no particular order, these are the only defencemen that I would absolutely take over Phaneuf without really thinking twice:

Weber
Suter
Doughty
Chara
Keith
OEL
Pietrangelo

Then there's the three recent Norris winners/nominees Karlsson, Subban and Letang, who I feel obligated to add to the list but I think Phaneuf's defensive game is superior to theirs. However the offence that those guys bring to the table is too much to ignore. So that's 10, and I don't think you could really make an argument that any one of those guys don't belong in the top-10, it just depends where they fall in that tier.

The next tier would include guys like McDonagh, Girardi, Campbell, Boyle, Timonen, Yandle, Seabrook, Green. And Phaneuf of course. And I might have Phaneuf at the top of the list in this tier.

I personally think McDonagh and Girardi were a tad overrated because of Tortorella's shot blocking system. They are both great defencemen, and would particularly look great alongside Phaneuf, but I don't think their all around games are as good as his. Campbell, Boyle, and Timonen's ages are all starting to show I think. They'll likely see themselves fall out of this tier within a year or two. That may have already happened for Timonen to be honest. Yandle's play seems to have slipped in the past season as OEL has surpassed him in Phoenix and is taking a lot of his minutes. He was never really all that strong defensively either. Seabrook and Green aren't as strong on offence and defence (respectively) to be considered better than Phaneuf, and I think both are being propped up a little bit by their linemates (Keith for Seabrook and Ovechkin for Green).

I'm sure there's a couple players that I've missed, but with all that said I'm pretty comfortable slotting Phaneuf somewhere in the 11-15 range. And if he plays the whole season like he has in the first 13 games he's bumping somebody out of the top-10.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm sure there's a couple players that I've missed, but with all that said I'm pretty comfortable slotting Phaneuf somewhere in the 11-15 range. And if he plays the whole season like he has in the first 13 games he's bumping somebody out of the top-10.

Yeah. I'd say Phaneuf falls pretty clearly into the range of where rankings start to become much more about personal preferences and biases rather than clear differences in overall skill levels.

 

[Kin]

Seabrook and Green aren't as strong on offence and defence (respectively) to be considered better than Phaneuf, and I think both are being propped up a little bit by their linemates (Keith for Seabrook and Ovechkin for Green)

I think Seabrook is a little bit better offensively than you're giving him credit for. Since Phaneuf has come to the Leafs his best season offensively is last year's 48 point pace. Seabrook equaled that a couple years back. Yeah, Seabrook plays with better talent but he also doesn't get the PP time Phaneuf does. Phaneuf probably gets the edge there but I think it's closer than you make it out to be.

 

[Peter D.]

While on the topic of Phaneuf, I think his play thus far is giving him a really good chance of making the Olympic team. 

 

[dappleganger]

While on the topic of Phaneuf, I think his play thus far is giving him a really good chance of making the Olympic team.

Based on his play so this year? Yeah, he should be on the team.

 

[Kin]

While on the topic of Phaneuf, I think his play thus far is giving him a really good chance of making the Olympic team.

I think he's definitely in the mix but I think the first 4 spots are virtual locks at this point(Weber, Keith, Doughty and Pietrangelo) and then Phaneuf is in on those last three spots with guys like Subban, Letang, Seabrook and others.

 

[Peter D.]

While on the topic of Phaneuf, I think his play thus far is giving him a really good chance of making the Olympic team.

I think he's definitely in the mix but I think the first 4 spots are virtual locks at this point(Weber, Keith, Doughty and Pietrangelo) and then Phaneuf is in on those last three spots with guys like Subban, Letang, Seabrook and others.

All these guys are exactly who I think are locks and in the mix.  The one thing that makes me wonder if Phaneuf has a slight edge up is the way he shoots.  Keith would be the only left-handed shot on the team.  )Granted, I don't know how much emphasis will be put on that or if it really matters.)  Then throw in the debate as to whether you need both Letang and Subban on the team (similar argument against Green in 2010), and a spot may be ripe for Phaneuf's picking if he continues the way he is playing.

 

[Erndog]

While on the topic of Phaneuf, I think his play thus far is giving him a really good chance of making the Olympic team.

I think he's definitely in the mix but I think the first 4 spots are virtual locks at this point(Weber, Keith, Doughty and Pietrangelo) and then Phaneuf is in on those last three spots with guys like Subban, Letang, Seabrook and others.

Maybe it's just me but I put Letang as a lock as well.  He was over a point a game last season and very well could have won the Norris.  I agree with your other 4.

I think there are 2 spots up for grabs on D and I'd wager Seabrook and Subban do have the inside track on them.

 

[Peter D.]

Just to add, I do think Bouwmeester will be given similar consideration as Phaneuf.

 

[Kin]

All these guys are exactly who I think are locks and in the mix.  The one thing that makes me wonder if Phaneuf has a slight edge up is the way he shoots.

Maybe, but I wonder if he isn't also at a disadvantage because of the general perceptions about what sort of player thrives on the bigger ice. I think about a guy like Bouwmeester who isn't, I think, as good as Phaneuf but he's a terrific skater and wonder if this isn't a tailor-made opportunity for him to be under consideration.

 

[Kin]

Maybe it's just me but I put Letang as a lock as well.  He was over a point a game last season and very well could have won the Norris. 

It's certainly possible that he's seen that way. I have some doubts just because they have so much offense from those first four I mentioned that they might want to look a little more towards the defensive side of things for the bottom half of the roster  but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Letang is a shoe-in.

 

[Jalili]

Just to add, I do think Bouwmeester will be given similar consideration as Phaneuf.

Yeah and Bouwmeester's a near lock IMO. He made it in '06, was the last D-man cut in '10, and plays with a D-man who's probably a lock to be there. And his style fits the international ice as well.

I think there could be a surprise pick there as well like ME Vlasic maybe.

Keith - Doughty
Subban - Weber
Bouwmeester - Pietrangelo
Vlasic - Phaneuf/Letang

 

[Jalili]

...I'm pretty comfortable slotting Phaneuf somewhere in the 11-15 range. And if he plays the whole season like he has in the first 13 games he's bumping somebody out of the top-10.

I think that's exactly where he is as well.

 

[lamajama]

While on the topic of Phaneuf, I think his play thus far is giving him a really good chance of making the Olympic team.

Based on his play so this year? Yeah, he should be on the team.

Personally I hope not. He has issues with skating (turning and being beaten wide - and on a large sheet of ice - yikes!) as well as periodic brain cramps. Perhaps on a NA sheet but not European.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

It's pretty hard to make the Canadian blueline. If he continues to play the way he has, he might knock one of the "locks" off the team, maybe based on their play not being where Phaneuf's is?

 

[Bullfrog]

My 2 cents opinion would like to trade Phaneuf...I don't see him as a cornerstone defenceman for a Stanley Cup team.

I don't understand this argument though. Even if he's not the cornerstone, is he not still a valuable member of the team?

If you presented an argument such as having him at a high cap hit prevents the team from acquiring a better defenseman, I could at least start to consider it. Otherwise, I'm not sure the ol' "cornerstone" argument is really all the relevant to deciding whether or not to keep a player.

 

[jdh1]

My 2 cents opinion would like to trade Phaneuf...I don't see him as a cornerstone defenceman for a Stanley Cup team.

I don't understand this argument though. Even if he's not the cornerstone, is he not still a valuable member of the team?

If you presented an argument such as having him at a high cap hit prevents the team from acquiring a better defenseman, I could at least start to consider it. Otherwise, I'm not sure the ol' "cornerstone" argument is really all the relevant to deciding whether or not to keep a player.

Well, I should of qualified my statement.While Phaneuf is a very good defenceman and can play top minutes.However,because of cap space allocation,there is only so many high value contracts that you can give on each team.
And I don't think he has the stability in high pressure situations to take the puck over and carry it out of danger.Last year playoffs proved this.To give a number one defence man as he is on the Leafs big money over the long term with his liabilities,to me is not wise.I would use that money toward someone else.

I think as well,Nonis has put together enough defenceman on this team as  evidence that he will be traded. Again that's my 2 cents opinion.