GhostofPotvin29
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BlueWhiteBlood said:
It's pretty clear the distinguishing factor is therefore firing the coach. Well done BWB and myself, we've cracked the case.
General Leafs Talk v2.0
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It's pretty clear the distinguishing factor is therefore firing the coach. Well done BWB and myself, we've cracked the case.
BlueWhiteBlood
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Nik the Trik said:
Sure, it's but one point.
Kin
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Bullfrog said:
Except I'm not sure it is the former(as I point out, teams of similar talent levels can play better with face-punchers in the line-up getting similar minutes) and while the latter is probably true that doesn't necessarily make it a point for criticism and certainly not to that extent.
Britishbulldog
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Nik the Trik said:
This year in 14 games of minimal use, Bodie was able to score a goal and get 2 assists. When given typical 4th line minutes in Anaheim under Carlyle he scored 5 goals in 44 games and on the Marlies this year Bodie has scored 4 goals in 14 games and only has 9 PIMs for a 6'4" 220 LBS RW face puncher.
Last year, McLaren playing under Carlyle on the 4th line was able to score 3 goals in only 35 games which isn't bad for a 6'5" 230 lbs LW face puncher. I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that pro-rated McLaren and Bodie could score 14 goals between them on the 4th line.
Neither guy is going to be the undisputed heavyweight of the NHL like Scott and McGratton could be but McLaren has fought both and did quite well.
If toughness if what the Leafs need then amoungst the forwards you have Kulemin who hits like a freight train, can skate and has a great shot, Kadri is fiesty and hits hard, Bozak throws hits, Lupul hits and is willing to fight, Clarkson will hit and fight and all are spread through the top 9. Add to that the 2 brutes, McLaren and Bodie, on the 4th line who can actually play a bit of hockey, score a few goals and retaliate for cheap shots you have a tough, tough team. Sprinkle the speed/skill players like Kessel, JVR, Raymond, etc with Bolland and McClement and the team looks half decent and balanced on paper.
Orr is useless because although he isn't adding anything to the play skillwise which I knew he wouldn't even though he has been one of my favourite Leafs, he isn't the intimidator attacking anyone who looked sideways at a Leaf player which made him useful. He lost his swagger after getting knocked out by Engelland and then after returning Parros hauled Orr down and fell on top off Orr on purpose smashing Orr's head into the ice ending Orr's season. Parros did the same move on Mashinter in San Jose I believe the same year and smashed Mashinter's head into the ice on a take down move as well.
Why Carlyle dresses the lineup that he does is one thing that baffles me based on the assets available to him but the way he uses the lineup he dresses totally seems insane.
On a side notse....If this Orr showed up again then I would be content with his limited skill and I would also not dress another face puncher in the line at forward or defense:
Orr in the past
Kin
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Britishbulldog said:
I mean, I think it's a little unreasonable given that the two guys you're talking about have played a combined 217 NHL games and only 11 goals in that span but....sure. If you want to say that Orr is the least good hockey player of the bunch I don't have a problem with that.
I think I've been pretty consistent over the years in A) not placing any value on fighting in the NHL and B) not liking Colton Orr in particular. I'm just not convinced of a drastic difference between your various 4th line configurations.
Chev-boyar-sky
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I'm wondering if moving Lupul for a young prospect and a solid D-man might be the way to go.
It may not be realistic but something like Lupul to the Kings for Toffoli and Mitchell as they're having trouble scoring.
Not saying that's the trade that gets made but rather something like it.
It may not be realistic but something like Lupul to the Kings for Toffoli and Mitchell as they're having trouble scoring.
Not saying that's the trade that gets made but rather something like it.
Highlander
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Lupul, JVR, Kessel, Kadri, Gardiner and Reilly are the only untouchables on this team IMHO
Palmateer29
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If they decide to keep Carlyle (who knows why) then I think Gardiner, Kadri and Reimer are all gone if not at the deadline then early in the summer. It's coming down to keep players or the coach...lc9 said:
mr grieves
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lc9 said:
Yeah, I can't see Nonis making any big roster moves to find Carlyle players. Holland down, Ashton up and Gleason for Liles both are pretty minor moves. But touching the core for a coach getting these results? The question being asked is Randy going to be allowed to play out the string or will he be canned over the summer? Unless he does something drastic -- change his system, mix the lines and approach to top 6/ bottom 6, etc. -- this team isn't getting better. The numbers have terrible all year, the luck's run out and bounces haven't been had, and their confidence has escaped them. So, if/when the Leafs do miss the playoffs with Carlyle behind the bench, what chance that he's back next season? What does a GM attribute this season to? Not his own work, surely. So, injuries? Do you think Nonis can convince himself that Dave Bolland is this essential to the team's success?
So, if it's clear Carlyle's out even if he's not fired this season, what chance Nonis gets rid quality assets the coach can't find a use for? Nil. I hope.
bustaheims
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2badknees said:
At the very least, people shouldn't be actively pulling for this team to end up in the middle ground. That does them no good. I don't want a team that has to scratch and claw its way into a playoff spot. I want the Leafs to either be a clear playoff team or a team that gets to draft some high ceiling talent. That middle ground is just prolonging mediocrity.
drummond said:
Or you can look at it from a different perspective
There are 36 games left, Leafs probably need 90 points for a playoff spot. That means they need to go 22-14 or something like 18-11-7 to finish off the season. I do not think it is realistic to expect this group (based on their performance in last 25 games) to finish the season with such a record.
moon111
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Can the Leafs improve their draft position?
Identify what teams will be competing for draft position and what their need are. If you think a team like Carolina could really use a Liles, deal him. Maybe they make the playoffs, and you move up in the draft. Deal for a lower pick, then deal any older player to teams even worst. Make that pick even better.
Identify what teams will be competing for draft position and what their need are. If you think a team like Carolina could really use a Liles, deal him. Maybe they make the playoffs, and you move up in the draft. Deal for a lower pick, then deal any older player to teams even worst. Make that pick even better.
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