Line-up changes

[Kin]

I guess it kind of depends on where he's injured. I mean, if it's a shoulder or a wrist thing and the pain is so severe that it limits the strength he can put into moving the puck and such, do we really want him playing, knowing that he's likely to be almost completely ineffective? I know I wouldn't. Without knowing the details, I'm not sure I can make much of a judgement either way.

Well, I'm not a doctor but I do own a white lab coat so I feel pretty confident in saying that if the pain is that bad that it's pretty hard to imagine there isn't actually a structural problem somewhere.

I mean, sure, anything that renders him completely ineffective makes him staying out of the line-up a good thing but that could just as easily be said about a headache so I'm not sure I agree that it would depend on where he's injured.

 

[Redleaf]

I think he has another concussion.

He'd be on the IR by now if that were true. Or is he already?

 

[bustaheims]

He's a wuss.

Live dangerously for once

Well, excuse me for wanting to make an informed decision.

 

[Bender]

I guess it kind of depends on where he's injured. I mean, if it's a shoulder or a wrist thing and the pain is so severe that it limits the strength he can put into moving the puck and such, do we really want him playing, knowing that he's likely to be almost completely ineffective? I know I wouldn't. Without knowing the details, I'm not sure I can make much of a judgement either way.

Well, I'm not a doctor but I do own a white lab coat so I feel pretty confident in saying that if the pain is that bad that it's pretty hard to imagine there isn't actually a structural problem somewhere.

I mean, sure, anything that renders him completely ineffective makes him staying out of the line-up a good thing but that could just as easily be said about a headache so I'm not sure I agree that it would depend on where he's injured.

"Make sure to give her this... this... and these."
"Thank you doctor"
"Oh, I'm not a doctor."

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Because, if so, I think that may be fuel for the fire that dude isn't so much "injury-prone" as much as a little bit of a wuss.

I guess it kind of depends on where he's injured. I mean, if it's a shoulder or a wrist thing and the pain is so severe that it limits the strength he can put into moving the puck and such, do we really want him playing, knowing that he's likely to be almost completely ineffective? I know I wouldn't. Without knowing the details, I'm not sure I can make much of a judgement either way.

He's a wuss.

Live dangerously for once

Why not a fairy, too?

 

[cw]

It could be a soft tissue issue that's harder to nail down.

Shoulder pain can be up there behind heart attack and burns as one of the most painful injuries so I wouldn't discount that pain discomfort as something one can always just tough out. The pain from a shoulder injury can be wicked.

 

[cw]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/connolly-remains-a-question-mark/article2197602/
The Leafs lineup for Saturday currently looks like so:

MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Frattin - Lombardi - Armstrong
Steckel - Dupuis - Brown

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Liles - Schenn
Gardiner - Franson

Reimer

Scratches: Orr, Rosehill, Komisarek

According to Mirtle at the Globe & Mail ...

I didn't expect Komisarek to get the hook so soon and maybe he won't as things could easily change. But Franson does usually play the right side so it might make some sense ...

 

[leafplasma]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/connolly-remains-a-question-mark/article2197602/
The Leafs lineup for Saturday currently looks like so:

MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Frattin - Lombardi - Armstrong
Steckel - Dupuis - Brown

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Liles - Schenn
Gardiner - Franson

Reimer

Scratches: Orr, Rosehill, Komisarek

According to Mirtle at the Globe & Mail ...

I didn't expect Komisarek to get the hook so soon and maybe he won't as things could easily change. But Franson does usually play the right side so it might make some sense ...

Hmmm, not sure I would mess with a guy finally regaining his swagger when for two years now we have been searching for some/any remnant of it.  Let him build on what he finally is giving us.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Two of the toughest decisions I thought Ron was going to face this season were benching Komisarek and Orr, even if they didn't necessarily deserve it. It'll be nice to see what Franson has to offer, and that might be the best 4th line we've had in quite some time.

 

[L K]

I've been a huge critic of Komisarek in Toronto.  I really don't think he has been bad the first two games.  Gardiner on the other hand has looked like a guy who has no clue how to play defense.  I get that you don't want to make a young player feel like one mistake ends his call up, but why start the kid-gloves treatment now?

Kadri seems to have to live by that rule, and the Leafs forwards aren't nearly as deep as the defense.

 

[cw]

Maybe some rationale on Komisarek sitting from Mirtle's twitter:
http://twitter.com/#!/mirtle
Ron Wilson made it sound very likely we'll see Franson in the lineup on Saturday. Imagine Komisarek sits.
9 hours ago
...
@noahlove66 Franson doesn't like playing on the left side and hasn't looked great when Wilson tried him there.
8 hours ago
...
@noahlove66 Gunnarsson's playing 22 minutes a night with Phaneuf and is also a left side guy.
6 hours ago
...
@noahlove66 And I'd say it's more about performance than want. Franson looked very uncomfortable on the left in preseason (and said as much)
6 hours ago
...
@p_evans @noahlove66 I guess they could also go Franson-Komisarek. Neither seems great.
6 hours ago
...
@LeafsNation87 That's my prediction. I don't think Gardiner will go down yet.
5 hours ago

Maybe Komisarek could play the left side if Franson is uncomfortable on the left. Clearly, there's some speculation going on with Mirtle as opposed to something specific he's been told by the team.

This continues to strike me as a weird mix of D talent because of stuff like this.

 

[cw]

Three pretty good NHL coaches with a flair for defence have liked Lombardi at center: Sutter, Tippett & Trotz. He's played well there. He's been one of their top Pkers and he's popped his share of points with respectable ice time of around 17 mins - with a chunk of it on the PK. Except for his season in Phoenix, he hasn't seen tons of PP time. He's a proven NHL center who has to prove he's still capable after his concussion. So far, so good but he has a ways to go.

Sorry for quoting without your name cw, the forum is giving me difficulties this evening.

Anyway, I'm basically going with what Wilson himself has said. He mentioned that he envisioned Lombardi lining up beside Bozak on the left side. I think his thinking is that Bozak will take the draws. I expect Bozak's numbers on the face-off to increase, as I believe he has done better and is capable of a lot better numbers than he's shown in these two games.

If there is any way that Frattin can be kept, obviously I'm all for it, as he is the most NHL ready of the rookies we have on the team right now IMO. So how this plays out is anyone's guess I suppose, it usually comes down to what Wilson wants and he's said good things about all of Kadri, Bozak and Frattin, but maybe less about Frattin in a direct sense. He's answered questions when he's asked, but I think he has a thing for Kadri and Bozak, much like he did with Mitchell.

That's just how I see it panning out, based on numbers and what I've read into what Wilson has said since camp opened and the season began. Maybe it really relys on Burke and he just needs to find that trade to promote a few guys to make things work, but he's in a pickle as he needs either a big trade where a few guys leave for one good one, a two for one deal, or a deal that receives a pick back, otherwise, it's waivers and trips to the Marlies for the young guys IMO.

Here's a little bit on why Bozak may be struggling in the faceoff circle (32% win%):
http://twitter.com/#!/mirtle/status/123800153378406400
mirtle James Mirtle
Bozak still wearing a big ice pack on his wrist. Believe that's the same injury he had in camp and has been playing through.
9 hours ago

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Here's a little bit on why Bozak may be struggling in the faceoff circle (32% win%):
http://twitter.com/#!/mirtle/status/123800153378406400
mirtle James Mirtle
Bozak still wearing a big ice pack on his wrist. Believe that's the same injury he had in camp and has been playing through.
9 hours ago

Well, that would make sense. I would almost think that he shouldn't take the draw, as one would think that that would aggravate it pretty good. Wrist injuries can be nagging at times, especially if they are not given time to heal properly. I'm no doctor or wrist specialist, but that would be my prescription.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Hopefully that 4th line continues to play well.

This kind of shocked me.  I knew our 3rd/4th lines were terrible offensively last season, but I didn't realize how few goals they needed to contribute collectively in order to boost our offensive output:

It?s a welcome change for a team that generated almost zero offence from its third and fourth lines a year ago, something that contributed greatly to the Leafs finishing tied for 21st in the NHL in goals for.

Toronto needed only another 0.2 goals per game ? or 16 goals over the course of the season ? to creep into the top five in scoring in the Eastern Conference, which is about the boost it may get from deep in the roster this time around.

Link

 

[Mack674]

As far as 3rd and 4th lines go, those are two of the best we've had in a number of years. Id go as far as to say theyre pretty much as good as youre going to get in the NHL. The Brown Steckel Dupuis combo especially is great to watch, those guys come out firing all cylinders and can really play defense and kill penalties.

 

[cw]

Frustrated Franson grows tired of waiting
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/10/12/frustrated-franson-grows-tired-of-waiting/
?This is not what I expected coming here,? Cody Franson says.

The 24-year-old, who grew up cheering for the Maple Leafs, is standing in his skates and talking about the trade that sent him from Nashville to Toronto in July. At the time, he had been excited. He thought that he was going to be a big part of the blue line, that he would be logging big minutes, scoring big goals and playing in front of big crowds every night.

But it has been nothing but a big disappointment so far, with Franson a healthy scratch in each of the Leafs? first two games.

?I don?t want to be a guy that misses games,? says Franson, who is in the final season of his contract. ?I?m supposed to be coming into my own. This was supposed to be my breakout year. That?s what I was working towards this summer. I was getting myself into shape to play bigger minutes and a bigger role. I prepared myself for that. For some reason, it just didn?t turn out that way.?

...
?You can only wait so long,? says Franson, whose agent told him to be as patient as he can. ?I just think it?s one of those things where I really want to play and feel I can contribute a lot more to this team than I am right now. It?s an awkward situation.?
....
?I expected to come here and be a key part of this team,? Franson says. ?I had eight goals last year and was plus-10 on a team that couldn?t score. I had a lot of confidence coming here. It?s tough to keep that the way this has turned out.?

Two games in the press box does not mean that the Leafs have given up on Franson. He should see power-play time on Saturday and could end up playing a big role with the team this season. But with the Leafs having more depth than they have had in years, players are going to have to get used to earning their minutes.

?He hasn?t played poorly,? Wilson says. ?But you would easily say other people have played a little bit better.?

Franson seems hotter about this than I would have expected. Not a happy camper "whose agent told him to be a patient as he can" ....

Hopefully, he'll feel a little better when they get him out there.

 

[Kin]

I think there's probably a line between having a lot of depth and having more NHL calibre defensemen than you can play. The Leafs are either at that line or just on the wrong side of it. I understand the instinct to stockpile talent in case of injury but I think that having a guy who thinks he should be playing regularly in the NHL, and is maybe right, and sticking him in the press box can lead to an unhappy situation.

 

[Erndog]

If we packaged Kadri + Franson/Gunnar/Aulie + maybe something else half-decent what do you think we could realistically get? 

I think that's the problem Burke is having.  He probably wants to package a couple things to get a sure-fire upgrade but whatever is being offered out their is not a sure-fire upgrade.  He's probably getting offers that are equivalent to guys like Lombardi, or Lupul or MacArthur and then it's just more of the same for us.  What we really need is a bonafide 1st liner but we likely don't have the quality of available assets to acquire one.

 

[ZBBM]

I think there's probably a line between having a lot of depth and having more NHL calibre defensemen than you can play. The Leafs are either at that line or just on the wrong side of it. I understand the instinct to stockpile talent in case of injury but I think that having a guy who thinks he should be playing regularly in the NHL, and is maybe right, and sticking him in the press box can lead to an unhappy situation.

I personally wouldn't give him even as charitable response as that. Cody just flunked the attitude test, and he did it in public.  Not good.

 

[Kin]

I personally wouldn't give him even as charitable response as that. Cody just flunked the attitude test, and he did it in public.  Not good.

I don't think it's as simple as that. I think there's something to be said for a guy who's in Franson's position being upset with how things are playing out. It's pretty natural for NHL players to want to play. If Franson were Brett Lebda and lucky to have a job, sure, but that's not the case here.

It's probably not the most politic decision to air things in public but I can't fault him for the attitude.