Official Tank Nation Topic

[Chev-boyar-sky]

I am not so sure this tank thing will work out as well for Edmonton either.  In the next few years they will have to resign all these first overall draft picks to their second contracts and I doubt that will leave much money for the rest of the roster.

Well sure, but can you imagine what kind of depth they could trade a Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/whoever they draft this year for?

They could probably acquire half a, cost effective 2nd and 3rd line and a pretty good pick/prospect, as well as a top 4 D-man for any of those guys if not a lot more.

I'd easily move Kuli, Gunnar, Frattin and someone like Colborne/Kadri for one of those guys. Now I don't think Edmonton even entertains that and I think other teams would come up with better offers but to say they've got a problem with too much talent is a more than a little bit misleading.

 

[Bender]

I am not so sure this tank thing will work out as well for Edmonton either.  In the next few years they will have to resign all these first overall draft picks to their second contracts and I doubt that will leave much money for the rest of the roster.

Well sure, but can you imagine what kind of depth they could trade a Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/whoever they draft this year for?

They could probably acquire half a, cost effective 2nd and 3rd line and a pretty good pick/prospect, as well as a top 4 D-man for any of those guys if not a lot more.

I'd easily move Kuli, Gunnar, Frattin and someone like Colborne/Kadri for one of those guys. Now I don't think Edmonton even entertains that and I think other teams would come up with better offers but to say they've got a problem with too much talent is a more than a little bit misleading.

True. I think looking at their cap layout they're pretty well set for the next couple of years until Hall and Eberle become UFAs. But you never know, they could be screwed via offer sheet. Picks will be next to useless up to that point, so it's still not exactly easy to build a contender. If Hall or Eberle gets offer sheeted and they can't match then they're back to square one.

 

[Derk]

Another loss today against the Caps puts them 8 points out. Hope is all but gone.

Canes also lose 2-0, so Leafs stay a point ahead of them and 2 up on the Isles, who are playing the Rangers. They are still tied for 6th worst record in the NHL with Anaheim and Minnesota.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I've read Grigorenko's name a bunch on this site, and just came across this on TSN's Draftcentre page:

Mikhail Grigorenko:  There had been whispers over the past month that all may not be wonderful when it comes to the scouting world's perception of Grigorenko's competitiveness, but the whispers have grown into full-blown skepticism in some circles. "He could fall right off the map," said one scout who asserted that his club won't be considering him in the first round.

"He doesn't want to compete. If he's there at 25 and we are picking, we go by him." 

His concerns were echoed by another eastern conference scout who insisted his team will not select the talented Russian no matter where they end up in the standings. "He's a dog. Take a look at what games Grigorenko gets his points. He gets a handful the other night against PEI. none at Moncton, and one assist (in the nationally televised game) in Saint John.  A couple of weeks ago in Rimouski he's minus 6. He scares the (crap) out of me."  While there's no denying his skill level, and his 73 points in 39 games as a QMJHL rookie are a testament to his offensive abilities, there will be a lot of teams watching him closely in the playoffs to see whether he has the competitive streak scouts like to see in their top five prospects. As of right now a number of teams have several players ranked ahead of him, and that trend will continue if he does not learn to compete at a higher level.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=388658

EDIT:  Hmm...I guess it's from February 23...so likely you've all seen it already.  Disregard and heap scorn if necessary.

 

[cw]

Another loss today against the Caps puts them 8 points out. Hope is all but gone.

Canes also lose 2-0, so Leafs stay a point ahead of them and 2 up on the Isles, who are playing the Rangers. They are still tied for 6th worst record in the NHL with Anaheim and Minnesota.

Right now they project to need 23 of 26 possible points (.885 win% the rest of the way) to make the playoffs with 91 pts. So the heavy, heavy probability is that it's over. They need a miracle run and show no signs of it.

Their best hope now is to get a lottery pick.

Many including me felt they needed good goaltending to make it (7-8th) and if they didn't they'd be 9th-12th. They didn't get it. I also felt their defence was their weakest link and I still feel that way.

A couple things did surprise me:
- I thought they'd make some progress with their PK and they really didn't.
- after their start, I figured they'd stay in the hunt longer. This 2W-12L-2OTL stretch - I never expected that. In that respect, I'm maybe more disappointed.

 

[TheMightyOdin]

As much as I hate losing were better off not winning anymore games at this point.

 

[princedpw]

I am not so sure this tank thing will work out as well for Edmonton either.  In the next few years they will have to resign all these first overall draft picks to their second contracts and I doubt that will leave much money for the rest of the roster.

See here:

http://first-world-problems.com/

This is akin to what the oilers face.  Too much talent is never a problem.  One can always get rid of it; one can't always acquire it.

 

[Bender]

I've read Grigorenko's name a bunch on this site, and just came across this on TSN's Draftcentre page:

Mikhail Grigorenko:  There had been whispers over the past month that all may not be wonderful when it comes to the scouting world's perception of Grigorenko's competitiveness, but the whispers have grown into full-blown skepticism in some circles. "He could fall right off the map," said one scout who asserted that his club won't be considering him in the first round.

"He doesn't want to compete. If he's there at 25 and we are picking, we go by him." 

His concerns were echoed by another eastern conference scout who insisted his team will not select the talented Russian no matter where they end up in the standings. "He's a dog. Take a look at what games Grigorenko gets his points. He gets a handful the other night against PEI. none at Moncton, and one assist (in the nationally televised game) in Saint John.  A couple of weeks ago in Rimouski he's minus 6. He scares the (crap) out of me."  While there's no denying his skill level, and his 73 points in 39 games as a QMJHL rookie are a testament to his offensive abilities, there will be a lot of teams watching him closely in the playoffs to see whether he has the competitive streak scouts like to see in their top five prospects. As of right now a number of teams have several players ranked ahead of him, and that trend will continue if he does not learn to compete at a higher level.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=388658

EDIT:  Hmm...I guess it's from February 23...so likely you've all seen it already.  Disregard and heap scorn if necessary.

At the same time I also heard that Roy is trying to mold him into a Malkin/Datsyuk type player.

If the defense goes before he does (there seems to be a lot in this draft) and we can still pick him up with our 5th-ish (hopefully) pick then I'd love to do that.

 

[cabber24]

Only managed 6 of last 32 available points! Well on our way... I'm guessing the Leafs finish 27th falling behind ANA, MIN, CAR, and NYI. What a joke...

 

[bustaheims]

A couple things did surprise me:
- I thought they'd make some progress with their PK and they really didn't.

In an overall sense, I'd agree, but, the fact that they've only allowed 5 PPGs in the last 31 games strongly suggests to me that they've made significant strides in improving in this area over the course of this season.

- after their start, I figured they'd stay in the hunt longer. This 2W-12L-2OTL stretch - I never expected that. In that respect, I'm maybe more disappointed.

This stretch truly has been mind boggling. Only 11 other teams in the past 6 season have had equally bad or worse stretches, and, considering it came immediately after a stretch of very good hockey where the team went 6-1-1 (with 3 shutouts and were just minutes away from a 4th) just makes that much more unfathomable.

 

[Erndog]

A couple things did surprise me:
- I thought they'd make some progress with their PK and they really didn't.

In an overall sense, I'd agree, but, the fact that they've only allowed 5 PPGs in the last 31 games strongly suggests to me that they've made significant strides in improving in this area over the course of this season.

- after their start, I figured they'd stay in the hunt longer. This 2W-12L-2OTL stretch - I never expected that. In that respect, I'm maybe more disappointed.

This stretch truly has been mind boggling. Only 11 other teams in the past 6 season have had equally bad or worse stretches, and, considering it came immediately after a stretch of very good hockey where the team went 6-1-1 (with 3 shutouts and were just minutes away from a 4th) just makes that much more unfathomable.

Even in the 6-1-1 stretch signs were there though.

They beat Ottawa 5-0 sure but they allowed 50 shots.  The next game they beat Edmonton 6-3 but it was real sloppy, and had a goal from Smyth dissallowed that was definitely a goal. 

I know sometimes on the flip side it works in our favour sure but I could see some problems even when we were winning.

 

[Stebro]

I'm starting to think about the conditioning of the team. I mean it's not like it's the first season in the last couple of years, where we do alright, and then just completely run out of gas. So all we're waiting for now is a little hot streak in the end to make sure that we don't get a great pick :

 

[bustaheims]

I'm starting to think about the conditioning of the team. I mean it's not like it's the first season in the last couple of years, where we do alright, and then just completely run out of gas. So all we're waiting for now is a little hot streak in the end to make sure that we don't get a great pick :

Actually, it kind of is. Since the lockout, the team has had a tendency actually improve their play after the All Star game/trade deadline.

 

[Zee]

I'm starting to think about the conditioning of the team. I mean it's not like it's the first season in the last couple of years, where we do alright, and then just completely run out of gas. So all we're waiting for now is a little hot streak in the end to make sure that we don't get a great pick :

Actually, it kind of is. Since the lockout, the team has had a tendency actually improve their play after the All Star game/trade deadline.

The tendency with the Leafs has been to start winning games when they're meaningless.  So expect a win streak in a few games when we're mathematically eliminated.

 

[the dingo ate my baby]

I'm starting to think about the conditioning of the team. I mean it's not like it's the first season in the last couple of years, where we do alright, and then just completely run out of gas. So all we're waiting for now is a little hot streak in the end to make sure that we don't get a great pick :

Actually, it kind of is. Since the lockout, the team has had a tendency actually improve their play after the All Star game/trade deadline.

The tendency with the Leafs has been to start winning games when they're meaningless.  So expect a win streak in a few games when we're mathematically eliminated.

Nah, the streak will start when it's almost impossible to make the playoffs, but when they're not yet mathematically eliminated.  The false hope is the best part about these counter productive streaks.  It can't begin without that.

 

[Stebro]

I'm starting to think about the conditioning of the team. I mean it's not like it's the first season in the last couple of years, where we do alright, and then just completely run out of gas. So all we're waiting for now is a little hot streak in the end to make sure that we don't get a great pick :

Actually, it kind of is. Since the lockout, the team has had a tendency actually improve their play after the All Star game/trade deadline.

The tendency with the Leafs has been to start winning games when they're meaningless.  So expect a win streak in a few games when we're mathematically eliminated.

Nah, the streak will start when it's almost impossible to make the playoffs, but when they're not yet mathematically eliminated.  The false hope is the best part about these counter productive streaks.  It can't begin without that.

Yep, that's probably what will happen. They will get close to the playoffs and screw up the pick.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

If the defense goes before he does (there seems to be a lot in this draft) and we can still pick him up with our 5th-ish (hopefully) pick then I'd love to do that.

Even with the way the defence is, we'd need a miracle to pick him at 5. Particularly if Montreal and Carolina are both ahead of us.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

A quick look at the potential prospects that could be available when the Leafs step up to the podium on draft day:

http://thehockeywriters.com/at-the-draft-table-toronto-maple-leafs/

Personally, assuming both Yakupov and Grigorenko are off the table I'm hoping for Galchenyuk. The injury is concerning, but we've seen guys in recent drafts get picked after missing plenty of time and it doesn't appear to have hampered their careers so far (Connolly and Cowen).

 

[maplesyrup]

I said I wasn't going to pay much attention to "the list" but absent much else to look forward to, I've been looking a bit. I know drafting a goalie in the 1first round is sometimes a risky thing to do but I wouldn't mind if the Leafs drafted Andrei Vasilevski or Malcolm Subban. It would nice to have a stud goaltending prospect in here (even if he was a few years away.) -Though I'd suppose we'd be trading down several spots to do so.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I said I wasn't going to pay much attention to "the list" but absent much else to look forward to, I've been looking a bit. I know drafting a goalie in the 1first round is sometimes a risky thing to do but I wouldn't mind if the Leafs drafted Andrei Vasilevski or Malcolm Subban. It would nice to have a stud goaltending prospect in here (even if he was a few years away.) -Though I'd suppose we'd be trading down several spots to do so.

I think trading down and giving up a top-5 pick would be absolutely insane considering the lack of top-end talent in our prospect pool. I mean, this could be the highest we pick since 1989. And even if we don't get into the top-4, there's still some very good players available. If Burke could grab a pick in the 20s then I wouldn't mind grabbing one of those goalies, but the only direction our first should be going is up.